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Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

jeff-vogel.blogspot.com

221–230 of 552 posts

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#221

I wonder what the sentiment would be if the situation was reversed. Here we have a developer effectively looking to pay below market rates for artists, and then unsurprisingly not finding many good artists willing to do that long term. Not a judgment on my part, just saying that he's looking to keep the art budget to an absolute minimum. Instead if it was an artist defending his choice to make relatively simple games…

I agree with your aside comment. That quote in the original article really jumped out to me. There are a ton of great indie games that have solid cohesive art direction but wouldn't be considered even close to AAA quality in terms of production effort. Some beloved heavy hitters would include the Steamworld series, Celeste, Undertale, Super Meat Boy. These are games made on a shoestring development team that don't look like garbage.

I think it would be one thing for the author to dig in his heels and make janky looking games because he truly likes them that way, but it sounds from his tone that he'd rather blame external factors for what on some level he knows is his own mediocrity.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#222

> People who grew up with Nintendo and Sega really like pixel art. As one of those people, I really don't like pixel art at all. Today's pixel art looks nothing like games did back in the day. The simple reason is that those Nintendo and Sega games weren't played on 27" 4k LCD monitors or 65" OLED TV's but on on the barely 14" CRT in my bedroom. We didn't have huge pixely sprites, they were small and blurry. It had a…

Id also argue that pixel art is the default fallback for people who don’t like 3d engine graphics, which I personally can’t stand. I love to see evolution of 2d graphics using our latest and greatest tech.

That's happening too. Lots of popular 2d games aren't really pixelart. Cuphead, Hollow Knight, or Ori and the Blind Forest, Child of Light etc aren't going for a particularly pixelart look and really advancing the aesthetic instead. So there is plenty of non pixelart stuff too if you want. However, fidelity is expensive, and sometimes, a small creator has better things to invest in.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#223
post #61

Aesthetics are such a poor/difficult topic to discuss, unless you want to go the academic/philosophical route. In fact, as soon someone feels the need to defend aesthetics in the first place, I'm starting to feel twitchy - for the same reason you don't want to discuss the quality of light with a blind person (not that I deny any blind person the right to know how I experience it). I think a lot of commenters are righ…

Art is one of the [many] reasons I could never be an indie game developer--I preferred to stick to apps and use the OS's native toolkits. You can't just write more tests to help ensure good art like you can for software. There's no compiler warnings to tell you it's not going to look good. There's no API spec to consult when you don't know if your character should have bigger or smaller eyes.

I don't even know how I'd even start to interview an artist or art director. You can't ask them to spend 10 minutes developing a 32x32 character on a whiteboard, can you? I doubt they'd do a 2-day HackerRank style take-home test. I guess you have to heavily rely on their portfolio and whether you like the look.

I empathize with the OP and really, seeing as he's made a successful living for 25 years writing games with crappy art, why does anyone think he needs advice from the HN or Reddit brain trust?

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#224

> People who grew up with Nintendo and Sega really like pixel art. As one of those people, I really don't like pixel art at all. Today's pixel art looks nothing like games did back in the day. The simple reason is that those Nintendo and Sega games weren't played on 27" 4k LCD monitors or 65" OLED TV's but on on the barely 14" CRT in my bedroom. We didn't have huge pixely sprites, they were small and blurry. It had a…

For me, pixel art is a technical limitation. I don't see the point of romanticising a technical limitation. What limitation are we going to do next? Retro low-poly 3D models? A soundtrack consisting of six songs only? Distributing the game on 13 floppy disks? Games that never get updates? Low quality collision objects? Null-model cable multiplayer? game_demo.exe file download from CNET.com? Anti-piracy methods by hav…

A technical limitation itself is insufficient, but a lot of art is on purpose limited in order to force focus on certain things.

E.g. black and white photography is often used to emphasise composition and lighting more. Specific palettes. Specific sets of instruments - a classical composition will not usually be for "some random number and set of musicians" but written for or arranged for, say, a quartet or a symphony orchestra. Both visual art and music tends to follow a whole range of rules to match certain styles.

And yes, reducing size is also a choice - the demo scene takes that very seriously for a good reason: it again forces a different focus. A non-size constrained demo category emphasizes cooperation and teams working on different parts, and project management and is a totally different thing than, say, a 4K demo where you have to focus on reducing a single concept to its essence.

A direct size constraint may not be that important for most games (though for some it is: people still develop cartridge games for the Commodore 64 for example), but resolution and palette constraints do act as implicit size constraints too to a great extent.

Well done pixel art is just a form of minimalism in art that focuses on shading and composition and exploiting patterns and how we interpret pictures. Just reducing resolution of a picture almost always produces bad pixel art. E.g. r/pixelart on Reddit includes this rule:

    Art must be comprised mostly of pixel art using pixel-level manipulation.
    Color reductions, index painting, computer generated, oekaki, aliased
    digital painting etc. are not permitted unless they have been cleaned up
    by hand afterwards or were posted with the [WIP] tag.
And people there get very picky about this, to the point that some people object to even fairly basic paint application tools (I've argued with people who claimed that a pixel based "spray" tool is not suitable for pixel art, for example, because there's not sufficient thought behind each pixel placement; I don't agree with that, but I do agree with the overall idea that you need to pay attention on a pixel level, and tweak things that does not look right). Taking e.g. a photography and color reducing it and reducing the resolution does not result in good pixel art - it results in pictures that are messy and unclear and that often lose a lot more detail vs. a proper pixel art rendition of the same scene.

Similarly reduced palettes forces much more conscious thinking about composition to make it make sense.

Modern pixel art, like modern chip tunes of course have different motivations from "authentic" art made because the constraints were real constraints of the hardware, but it's really no different from people who e.g. choose to compose for piano even though they could compose for a synth and be free to include sounds no piano can reproduce. We have not entirely abandoned piano music just because we now have more flexible instruments available.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet some small developers have managed to build visually stunning games, like Brigadier. Enter The Gungeon, Stardew Valley, Dungeons Of The Endless, were all developed by very small teams.

I forgot to mention Prison Architect which takes the cake. At a first glance it look like horrendous programmer-art, but soon it dawns that it is all fully animated and it is just a joy to watch a prison humming along, with every character doing their thing.

It is still horrendous. You are just getting positive associacions with it. Same way if you delve deep into Exile you think "OMG A Dragon! How huge!" not "damn, that's ugly bunch of pixels"

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#226
post #118

Haha I love how 90% of the comments are from just exactly the same people who he wrote this blog post for, and they still make the same points again :D I have an indie game myself (Skyturns on G Play) and if you are not an artist, making good art is simply really hard. Someone says ”this menu is ugly”, and the cognitive load of making it meet their expectations is massive. I even have graphically skilled people criti…

> if you are not an artist, making good art is simply really hard

And if you are not a programmer, making a good game is really hard. But you can learn. If you are willing to put in the effort to develop your own sense of the aesthetic, even a small amount of time can result in huge improvements.

You don't need an "art director" and neither does this guy.

If you think your menus are ugly, find some menus that you don't think are ugly and ask yourself what it is about them that makes them not ugly. When you can answer that question with certainty and apply the answer to your own menus, that's a first step towards improvement.

PS: I spent 10 minutes on your game. It's fun.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#227

I wonder what the sentiment would be if the situation was reversed. Here we have a developer effectively looking to pay below market rates for artists, and then unsurprisingly not finding many good artists willing to do that long term. Not a judgment on my part, just saying that he's looking to keep the art budget to an absolute minimum. Instead if it was an artist defending his choice to make relatively simple games…

How many indie darlings have simple but unique and striking styles? AAA-quality can be just as bland and boring as an uninspired indie. This is more about lackluster art direction, which you'll never get from freelancers.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#228

There is a big gap between "crap" and AAA for sure. But think about this (in today's time): * Half Life 2 looks like crap * Fallout 3 looks like crap * Actually any game from more than a few years back, looks like crap But any of those are hopelessly out of reach for any Indie developer even with today's tools. There is real AAA from earlier days, that still looks good these days, like: * Battlefield 3 * Crysis 2 * C…

Half Life doesn't look like crap. It looks dated. There is a huge gap between the way the OP's games look and how half life looks, because even though the 3D tech was worse and the textures lower res in half life, it had a proper art team behind it. A proper art team is expensive, and he doesn't want to pay for it. Fair enough. But just getting someone to look over the art all together and making it a bit more cohesive would be a huge improvement. The thing is, it seems he's paying different people to do different pieces and just putting it all together without any sense of direction. I think it's alright if you want to pay A to draw this and that, and then when A leaves pay B to draw this and that, but you should have B take a look at the tileset as a whole and ask him to make the pieces look alright together. Because right now it's a huge mess.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#229

There is a big gap between "crap" and AAA for sure. But think about this (in today's time): * Half Life 2 looks like crap * Fallout 3 looks like crap * Actually any game from more than a few years back, looks like crap But any of those are hopelessly out of reach for any Indie developer even with today's tools. There is real AAA from earlier days, that still looks good these days, like: * Battlefield 3 * Crysis 2 * C…

> people will still think your game looks like crap. And those people who don't (I for instance really like SNES games still), will also be satisfied with the art he can create.

I like Spiderweb games, but most SNES games looked better than this. Some NES games looked better than this. You can have cheap, low-res art that is coherent and pleasing to the eye, but this isn't it.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#230

> People who grew up with Nintendo and Sega really like pixel art. As one of those people, I really don't like pixel art at all. Today's pixel art looks nothing like games did back in the day. The simple reason is that those Nintendo and Sega games weren't played on 27" 4k LCD monitors or 65" OLED TV's but on on the barely 14" CRT in my bedroom. We didn't have huge pixely sprites, they were small and blurry. It had a…

For me, pixel art is a technical limitation. I don't see the point of romanticising a technical limitation. What limitation are we going to do next? Retro low-poly 3D models? A soundtrack consisting of six songs only? Distributing the game on 13 floppy disks? Games that never get updates? Low quality collision objects? Null-model cable multiplayer? game_demo.exe file download from CNET.com? Anti-piracy methods by hav…

There's a major gap between 'technically superior' and 'subjectively superior'. You sound pretty out of touch here in a time when LPs and casettes have made a comeback, chiptunes are pretty hip, some artists have literally released albums on floppy disk, and, as already mentioned, contrary to your own sarcasm low-poly graphics are already a an indie game trope.

Just because something has more impressive metrics doesn't make it fun.

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