Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap • Hacker News Board

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#161

Post by kkarakk » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 1:36 PM UTC

atoav wrote: post #120

mcphage wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> decide this is as good as it gets. He just wrote a very long article explaining just that.

And it reads like and excuse to himself, which is probably the reason for the reaction on HN. A bit like a film maker who says: "If only I had the budget, Hollywood has, I could totally do better films than them". Don't get me wrong, good art doesn't necessarily need a lot of money or resources. It needs the right eyes that know when it works and when it doesn't. He seems to aknowledge he doesn't have them and explai…

No he's not saying he could make better games than AAA if he had funding, he's outright stating that his games are top notch in his niche(as per his belief and shown by his customer's faith in his products)

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#162

Post by magashna » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 1:36 PM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #154

magashna wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That era also had fantastic art in arcade games, so don't deny that things like Kim Kaphwan's pants exist https://www.resetera.com/threads/animation-excellence-a-eulo... I'd say today's pixel art generally doesn't hit the heights that it did in SF3 or some of the mid KoF games

> https://www.resetera.com/threads/animation-excellence-a-eulo... > > Current technology isn't even close to being enough to replicate this with real-time physics. The claim on that page, that those detailed cloth animations were superior and somehow lost in the transition to 3D games, is bunk though. Modern games are very detailed, e.g. https://youtu.be/ot_sYoqe_2w?t=2355

That claim is subjective, and detail != style. A couple floppy rags are not comparable to the big flowing pants on a gi.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#163

Post by wilsonnb3 » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 1:36 PM UTC

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #140

dfxm12 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one of those people, I really don't like pixel art at all. I don't like pixel art either. I assume it is easier to make pixel art than good looking sprites. I think the article touches on this. but on on the barely 14" CRT in my bedroom. We didn't have huge pixely sprites, they were small and blurry. This is true for consoles, but not really for arcade games of the era, which have very crisp, very pixelated graphi…

> This is true for consoles Sure, but the author specifically mentions "People who grew up with Nintendo and Sega"

Sega and Nintendo both made arcade machines, too.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#164

Post by IggleSniggle » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 1:37 PM UTC

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #84

> People who grew up with Nintendo and Sega really like pixel art. As one of those people, I really don't like pixel art at all. Today's pixel art looks nothing like games did back in the day. The simple reason is that those Nintendo and Sega games weren't played on 27" 4k LCD monitors or 65" OLED TV's but on on the barely 14" CRT in my bedroom. We didn't have huge pixely sprites, they were small and blurry. It had a…

I also grew up with pixel art. What I do like about pixel art was that it forced you to use your imagination more to complete the scene. That has driven me towards modern games made entirely in ASCII or text, however, not towards more pixel art.

I highly recommend Brogue or Cogmind for people that want an example of a beautiful looking contemporary game made with ASCII/ANSI. The developer of Cogmind open-sourced his ASCII-art making tool![0]

[0] - https://www.gridsagegames.com/rexpaint/

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#165

Post by billfruit » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 1:37 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #78

meheleventyone wrote: post #9

Arrrgh, there are a lot of interesting and good points in the article but for the most part they miss the wood for the trees. The actual answer is that care isn't being taken to develop a style that looks good and meets his constraints. Jeff needs a good art director. The Ultima V and Baba is You examples are excellent counter-points because they show how great games with simple styles can look.

For me the actual message is that he doesn't have money to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks, and he's not going to risk going into debt.

Yet some small developers have managed to build visually stunning games, like Brigadier. Enter The Gungeon, Stardew Valley, Dungeons Of The Endless, were all developed by very small teams.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#166

Post by qazpot » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 1:38 PM UTC

This article is a masterpiece of click bait titles.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#167

Post by gbersac » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 1:38 PM UTC

mar77i wrote: post #148

> It achieved financial success (among the blind, apparently) That reminds me: I guess not even a game like NetHack can be realistically played by a blind person, so I wonder if this was some failed kind of joke or if the author actually considers that audience.

It's clearly a joke.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#168

Post by growlist » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 1:38 PM UTC

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #84

> People who grew up with Nintendo and Sega really like pixel art. As one of those people, I really don't like pixel art at all. Today's pixel art looks nothing like games did back in the day. The simple reason is that those Nintendo and Sega games weren't played on 27" 4k LCD monitors or 65" OLED TV's but on on the barely 14" CRT in my bedroom. We didn't have huge pixely sprites, they were small and blurry. It had a…

Not so sure about that - I had a Philips CM8833 MK II that was pretty crisp, certainly crisper than a TV.

I love pixel art! So much creativity squeezed out of such limited hardware.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#169

Post by IggleSniggle » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 1:39 PM UTC

xtracto wrote: post #144

ebg13 wrote: post #141

Oh man. This thread is really something else. Like...for miles in every direction, all I can see are pitchforks, and here I am standing alone on a small hill thinking to myself "Holy shit. That's the Spiderweb software guy. I've played every single one of his games, EVERY SINGLE ONE, and loved all of them." The graphics in the games are exactly as good as they need to be to make wonderful story-driven RPGs.

I havent played any of his games but now would love to do it. I like dwarf fortress and generally am bummed with the gameplay in current games.

Try Cogmind.

Re: Why All of Our Games Look Like Crap

#170

Post by egypturnash » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 1:39 PM UTC

Causality1 wrote: post #2

>made by a team of freelancers, to our specifications So...did these freelancers not communicate with each other at all? When I saw the first screenshot on the page, of the newest game, I thought it was composed entirely of assets purchased from an asset store and built in RPG Maker and I expected the body of the article to be centered on why it's ok to buy assets when what you're focusing on is gameplay. I feel like…

Honestly the rest of what he says about hiring artists makes me suspect he doesn’t so much have a team of artists as he has a series of artists, with no communication between them.

Reading between the lines I think he is also not paying his artists very much, and not offering them any other perks that would make them want to come back for another fun Spiderweb gig on the side.