Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss • Hacker News Board

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#61

Post by apo » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:53 PM UTC

I'm sure the emotions are genuine, but articles like this leave me with a sense that those concerned are waiting for others (especially "leaders") to make something happen. They want electric cars to be mandated so they can continue their addiction to the automobile despite the severe environmental effects of car culture regardless of the fuel source. They want government to force companies to develop carbon neutral everything so that they can continue their lives of consumption uninterrupted.

We control our own actions. Our continued individual consumption leads to CO2 emissions. It's in our power to radically reduce our own carbon footprint by scaling back our lives. Not seeking out environmentally-friendly alternatives, but by curbing our out-of-control consumption urges which lie at the heart of this entire mess.

However, this requires painful, life-changing choices for many. Foregoing the house in the burbs for a walkable/rideable commute. Shunning unsustainable locations like Silicon Valley, even if that means reduction in income. Scaling way back on air travel. Avoiding foods grown in rainforest whose consumption encourages deforestation (e.g., coffee). Living far below our means, in other words.

Stop blaming Trump. Rejoining the Paris Accords won't solve the problem. Far more radical adjustments will be needed to prevent even the mildest effects now being predicted.

I want to see people voicing climate change concerns recommending the only thing that audience members can directly control - live a far simpler life and start doing it now. Stop complaining about how impractical this option is. This is what every "leader" is doing, from CEOs to presidents. Act - just like you are expecting others to do so.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#62

Post by nharada » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:54 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #9

I'm of the belief that the only thing that will accomplish the goals set out by those who care at the level of the author is actual, literal, worldwide fascism. And I also believe that climate-agnostic entities (who don't care one way or another) will be waiting in the wings opportunistically as people start to call for that fascism.

Even if that were the only way, what are the odds fascists care about this problem enough to solve it? Clearly low: look at Brazil right now

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#63

Post by pier25 » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:54 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #9

I'm of the belief that the only thing that will accomplish the goals set out by those who care at the level of the author is actual, literal, worldwide fascism. And I also believe that climate-agnostic entities (who don't care one way or another) will be waiting in the wings opportunistically as people start to call for that fascism.

Maybe not fascism, but a benevolent dictatorship.

Anyway, that won't happen. At some point the effects of climate change will be so evident that everyone will scream for action. And at that point it will be too late to do anything meaningful.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#64

Post by BurningFrog » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:54 PM UTC

youareawesome wrote: post #15

I've gotten a vasectomy exactly because it's clear that some of the worst outcomes of human-created climate change are inevitable, and I recommend anyone who cares about the environment and the well-being of their potential children to do the same. My only question is what to do when the world actually ends in 10 or so years. I'm thinking of quitting my job in SF and moving to a rural area in northern midwest far fro…

I'm sad about how many people destroy their lives because of Climate Change alarmism.

I wonder how many suicides are provoked by it, for example?

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#65

Post by jonbronson » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:55 PM UTC

RobertRoberts wrote: post #44

RonaldSchleifer wrote: post #16

[flagged]

It seems rational discussion is not what people actually want. Hypocrisy is rampant in the discussion about climate change. Irrationality and emotions are manipulation tactics, not solutions, therefore nothing will actually change with the climate. The worst is when _real_ demonstrable solutions are presented and rejected because they don't "feel good" or make some kind of marketing splash.

Don't mistake a lack of empowerment with hypocrisy. When someone advocates for policy to limit the emissions of vehicles produced by the automotive industry, but happens to drive their car to work everyday, that's not hypocrisy. That's a person who is coping with the system around them, still advocating to change that system in the only way that is meaningful. Systemic changes require large actions. To pretend that individual actions alone will get us out of this death spiral is at best naive.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#66

Post by NeedMoreTea » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:55 PM UTC

bloopernova wrote: post #23

input_sh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's better to just do nothing? We're fucked, but at least have your conscience clean. Anything helps: eat less meat, plant some trees, start recycling, bike to work, refuse single-use plastic, sacrifice a little bit of your personal convenience for the benefit of the planet. Do anything you weren't doing until today. Nobody will save the planet on their own, but a large swath of people doing one single thing is b…

Thank you. I've been scolded a bit by the replies here, so I know I need to examine what I'm not doing and remedy that.

Our youngest is about the same age, and I'm equally conflicted. We've done what we can, in part because I want to be able to look my youngest in the eye, but I'm aware that 95% of what's needed is entirely out of our control. Personal acts can't begin to compensate for government policy on fuel, subsidies, lack of a carbon tax etc.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#67

Post by RobertRoberts » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:55 PM UTC

throwaway5752 wrote: post #55

RobertRoberts wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Recognizing emotions as part of the problem and solution feels like a big step. I think this is actually the worst thing we can do. Science is facts, cold hard facts. If you want to get rid of the science and focus on emotions, then the solutions to the _real_ problem will get distorted.

I don't want to sound harsh, but you're wrong because you're missing the point, and badly. The author talks about cancer diagnoses. This is an apt analogy, and there is a huge body of science for helping individuals cope with personal tragedy. Global warming is a global and personal tragedy. People will have their livelihoods ruined, and people will die. People already have, but (since this is a anglophile community)…

Do you want to feel better about the climate? Or actually fix it?

I'd rather have a cold hard doctor that fixes my cancer, than feel good about dying.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#68

Post by ovi256 » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:56 PM UTC

youareawesome wrote: post #15

I've gotten a vasectomy exactly because it's clear that some of the worst outcomes of human-created climate change are inevitable, and I recommend anyone who cares about the environment and the well-being of their potential children to do the same. My only question is what to do when the world actually ends in 10 or so years. I'm thinking of quitting my job in SF and moving to a rural area in northern midwest far fro…

Encouraging the people concerned with the long term future to not have children is basically an amazing plan a super-villain could come with to ensure there will significantly less opposition to climate change in the next generation. Well done.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#69

Post by keymon-o » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:56 PM UTC

OmegaBlight wrote: post #3

throwaway5752 wrote: post #2

This is a really good article. It touches on the global denial, the gross generational inequality of the status quo, and acknowledges the personal mental health difficulty in trying to accept what the human race has done. It's also pragmatic and talks about what's being done. Very worthwhile reading in its entirety.

Do you think we as society are going to change fast enough to combat the challenges we are currently facing? It seems that we are all just repeating past mistakes in a grander scale.

I just hope the last warning will be shocking and soon enough to combat the problem. Of course, if it hasn't happened already.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#70

Post by arrrg » Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:56 PM UTC

RobertRoberts wrote: post #51

danharaj wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Science is facts, cold hard facts. How do you figure?

How I "feel" about a scientific result is irrelevant to the result. (ie, if I am mad or happy, it doesn't _affect_ the result) Therefore feelings are irrelevant to both the scientific process and the results found from using it.

That’s correct, but science also won’t solve this.

This is a political/social issue that has to be approached this way. The science should inform our decisions but in order to reach that goal one might have to do more than insist that the science is correct and doesn’t care about your emotions.