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Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

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Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#41

Post by verttii »

rusticpenn wrote: post #38
verttii wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well just dropping a link to a news article or a study wouldn't really change things. If you look at who's the one producing major digital innovations it's still USA. Sure the Nordic countries are smaller but it's hard to compete against countries like USA with well educated people with strong work ethic when you're pushing in half the hours. Sweden sure is doing well with digital innovations but can't say that the r…

That is related to the funding in silicon valley. So many people who want to do startups in europe move to silicon valley.

Yep, that's much of the reason. The whole ecosystem is just incredibly well developed over there.

Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#43

Post by askosh »

verttii wrote: post #40
askosh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an Estonian, also a nordic country. We have a bunch of things we are years ahead of in terms of digital innovations ( https://e-estonia.com/ ), all while having a 1.3m population. What does the USA do better exactly?

Estonia is certainly performing well. But since it's so tiny it's really hard to compare against a giant like USA. Although much of the same problem applies to Nordics. We use Google, Facebook, Youtube, Snapchat, Whatsapp, Apple - all American products. Whereas the Nordic countries produce very few major digital innovations used globally. Also, I didn't know Estonia was a Nordic country.

Well, true, all the big players are from USA. But as far digital innovation inside of a nation go, and for the nation, USA needs to do a lot of catching up. Because while true that USA made a thing called "instagram influencers", it has done very little for its people.

If by Nordic you mean Northern European, then Estonia is Nordic, all tho' often misrepresented as Eastern European.

Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#45

Post by verttii »

Someone1234 wrote: post #34
verttii wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, exactly because of the high work ethic USA excels in many regards that these "well-being nations" do not. But you're right, it doesn't necessarily lead to a better health to work harder, however, often it does lead to better business results.

I dispute the "better business results" claim, I don't think that's factually true. But let's assume it is, why then is wealth so much more concentrated[0] in the US? Let's assume that the US did have "better business results" and let's also assume that that is the result of worse working conditions. Why then are the workers, working in worse conditions, not benefiting from it directly? Seems like, if that were true,…

In contrast, if USA is not performing better then why are most of the digital innovations of US origin? Why do like half of the world's tech billionaires live in Silicon Valley? While Finland has maybe 1?

The Scandinavian countries focus on leveling the playing field for everyone. It allows the less privileged to build a good life, but it also hinders the most ambitious ones. Whereas USA is happy to focus on the extremes, allowing places like Silicon Valley to flourish.

We can argue endlessly whichever is better for the society, but professionals often choose the place to live based on what is best for them, not what political model some place runs on.

Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#46

Post by marvin »

verttii wrote: post #32
toxik wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed on that. Scandinavian work ethic and culture is in my opinion good, and puts emphasis on overcoming hierarchical inertia (e.g. we don't use titles) and lateral thinking in a way that I feel North Americans don't, rather, the emphasis is on "the grind." Putting in insane hours, staying after the boss, etc. A thin veneer of productivity if you ask me. The reason the US excels in business is, I would say…

Well just dropping a link to a news article or a study wouldn't really change things. If you look at who's the one producing major digital innovations it's still USA. Sure the Nordic countries are smaller but it's hard to compete against countries like USA with well educated people with strong work ethic when you're pushing in half the hours. Sweden sure is doing well with digital innovations but can't say that the r…

I don't think, at all that Amazon, Facebook, Google, Tesla, SpaceX, Microsoft, Apple, Netflix, +++ could have happened in Scandinavia. Even our small success stories are sold to foreign investors before they have time to grow big.

It's harder to determine the cause, though. Contrary to popular opinion, I believe that work ethic, level of dedication, drive and regulatory climate wrt. employee protections, consumer protections etc. has something to do with it.

But this is just a small part of the question. We also don't have solid access to investors and capital, a business/startup-friendly tax & regulatory climate, a home market of 300 million customers, a culturally compatible potential employee pool of 300 million, many of the world's greatest universities, thousands of successful entrepeneurs who participate in the business climate, entrepeneurial success as a prominent cultural trait, excelling in your chosen profession as something to be lauded, bureaucratic & legal support for companies that are about to become successful, a relatively judgement-free climate with regards to high compensation for successful professionals etc etc etc.

It's hard to say if the value of not having business/professional success, or even long hours as a primary cultural value is key when compared to these other elements.

I'm pretty confident that e.g. "The Law of Jante" easily trumps the lack of a 50-hour workweek as an impediment to success, but there are probably also downsides to not even having the latter as an option if it feels necessary.

Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#47

Post by mih »

verttii wrote: post #40
askosh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an Estonian, also a nordic country. We have a bunch of things we are years ahead of in terms of digital innovations ( https://e-estonia.com/ ), all while having a 1.3m population. What does the USA do better exactly?

Estonia is certainly performing well. But since it's so tiny it's really hard to compare against a giant like USA. Although much of the same problem applies to Nordics. We use Google, Facebook, Youtube, Snapchat, Whatsapp, Apple - all American products. Whereas the Nordic countries produce very few major digital innovations used globally. Also, I didn't know Estonia was a Nordic country.

>> Also, I didn't know Estonia was a Nordic country.

Relevant: https://satwcomic.com/party-crasher

https://satwcomic.com/imposter

https://satwcomic.com/new-nordic

A funny take on why other 'Nordic' countries don't think so

Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#48

Post by [deleted] »

alkonaut wrote: post #14
rayiner wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does cultural homogeneity have to do with it? Homogenous cultures have an easier time agreeing to all do the same thing. It’s called establishing social norms. I went to a STEM magnet high school that was about 1/3 Asian when I was there and is now 2/3 Asian. It was already known as a pressure cooker when I was a kid, and the competitiveness went way up since then. Why? Well I was one of those Asians. My dad g…

> he told me I had to work 16 hours a day to be successful. "Success" in what sense? When have you succeeded? How much should a 16h/day workweek pay for it to be a "success" if you have kids? Would the kids agree on the assessment?

[deleted]

Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#49

Post by rficcaglia »

verttii wrote: post #45
Someone1234 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dispute the "better business results" claim, I don't think that's factually true. But let's assume it is, why then is wealth so much more concentrated[0] in the US? Let's assume that the US did have "better business results" and let's also assume that that is the result of worse working conditions. Why then are the workers, working in worse conditions, not benefiting from it directly? Seems like, if that were true,…

In contrast, if USA is not performing better then why are most of the digital innovations of US origin? Why do like half of the world's tech billionaires live in Silicon Valley? While Finland has maybe 1? The Scandinavian countries focus on leveling the playing field for everyone. It allows the less privileged to build a good life, but it also hinders the most ambitious ones. Whereas USA is happy to focus on the extr…

Low taxes.

Edit: not anecdotal. I personally know 3 execs from Scandinavian countries who tell me this is why they moved here. Also health care. They travel back to EU for routine stuff, but when they need elective procedures or advanced treatments you just cannot get those back in the EU.

Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#50

Post by verttii »

verttii wrote: post #40
askosh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an Estonian, also a nordic country. We have a bunch of things we are years ahead of in terms of digital innovations ( https://e-estonia.com/ ), all while having a 1.3m population. What does the USA do better exactly?

Estonia is certainly performing well. But since it's so tiny it's really hard to compare against a giant like USA. Although much of the same problem applies to Nordics. We use Google, Facebook, Youtube, Snapchat, Whatsapp, Apple - all American products. Whereas the Nordic countries produce very few major digital innovations used globally. Also, I didn't know Estonia was a Nordic country.

Ok I'm used to considering only Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Iceland as Nordic countries. They're also the only members of the Nordic council.

Estonia I've always just considered a Baltic country, which I suppose is accurate as well. Not that these definitions really matter anyway.

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