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Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

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Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#31

Post by HNcantBtrustd »

jks wrote: post #21
HNcantBtrustd wrote: post #15

I can't fathom what life is like in such a small country. If 1 major company goes out of business, does it cause chaos? High unemployment and lower tax revenue sounds like any moment the country could find itself in an economic depression. In my local area this almost happened.

Yes, the fall of Nokia (even though it didn't go completely out of business) had a big impact, especially in some regions. Here is a rough timeline: https://www.quora.com/How-has-the-decline-of-Nokia-affected-...

It doesn't explain what life is like due to losing that industry.

We are told of Utopia in Europe, but aren't told these stories.

Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#32

Post by verttii »

toxik wrote: post #27
verttii wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, exactly because of the high work ethic USA excels in many regards that these "well-being nations" do not. But you're right, it doesn't necessarily lead to a better health to work harder, however, often it does lead to better business results.

Citation needed on that. Scandinavian work ethic and culture is in my opinion good, and puts emphasis on overcoming hierarchical inertia (e.g. we don't use titles) and lateral thinking in a way that I feel North Americans don't, rather, the emphasis is on "the grind." Putting in insane hours, staying after the boss, etc. A thin veneer of productivity if you ask me. The reason the US excels in business is, I would say…

Well just dropping a link to a news article or a study wouldn't really change things. If you look at who's the one producing major digital innovations it's still USA. Sure the Nordic countries are smaller but it's hard to compete against countries like USA with well educated people with strong work ethic when you're pushing in half the hours.

Sweden sure is doing well with digital innovations but can't say that the rest of the Nordics are performing equally as well. USA still has Silicon Valley which outperforms every other region in the world.

Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#33

Post by WaylonKenning »

HNcantBtrustd wrote: post #15

I can't fathom what life is like in such a small country. If 1 major company goes out of business, does it cause chaos? High unemployment and lower tax revenue sounds like any moment the country could find itself in an economic depression. In my local area this almost happened.

I'm from New Zealand. What's our major companies? None of them employ more than 20,000 employees globally. Sure that's a lot of people to lose a job, but the big companies are building, groceries, airlines, and telecommunications. If the companies go under, the demand for the products doesn't disappear.

As for unemployment rate, 3.9%. Pretty close to the UK, USA, China.

As for tax, on $100K USD, you'd be taxed 28.3% on your income, and 15% on your consumption via GST.

Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#34

Post by Someone1234 »

verttii wrote: post #26
mxuribe wrote: post #25

> Since then, discussions about the benefits of flexible working have intensified around the world, with a boom in large global companies embracing the concept... I sure hope companies operating in U.S. adopt this behavior more and more. It always seems like in the U.S. we work harder and not necessarily smarter; certainly not healthier. I'm envious of the health-related foundations that other countries at least try…

On the other hand, exactly because of the high work ethic USA excels in many regards that these "well-being nations" do not. But you're right, it doesn't necessarily lead to a better health to work harder, however, often it does lead to better business results.

I dispute the "better business results" claim, I don't think that's factually true. But let's assume it is, why then is wealth so much more concentrated[0] in the US?

Let's assume that the US did have "better business results" and let's also assume that that is the result of worse working conditions. Why then are the workers, working in worse conditions, not benefiting from it directly?

Seems like, if that were true, the US is working average workers harder so that the ultra-wealthy can get even wealthier. Does that benefit society at large?

PS - I'd like to link this, called "The Nordic Model"[1] discusses a lot of good (and bad) about that part of the world.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_eq...

[1] https://economics.mit.edu/files/5726

Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#35

Post by askosh »

verttii wrote: post #32
toxik wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed on that. Scandinavian work ethic and culture is in my opinion good, and puts emphasis on overcoming hierarchical inertia (e.g. we don't use titles) and lateral thinking in a way that I feel North Americans don't, rather, the emphasis is on "the grind." Putting in insane hours, staying after the boss, etc. A thin veneer of productivity if you ask me. The reason the US excels in business is, I would say…

Well just dropping a link to a news article or a study wouldn't really change things. If you look at who's the one producing major digital innovations it's still USA. Sure the Nordic countries are smaller but it's hard to compete against countries like USA with well educated people with strong work ethic when you're pushing in half the hours. Sweden sure is doing well with digital innovations but can't say that the r…

I'm an Estonian, also a nordic country. We have a bunch of things we are years ahead of in terms of digital innovations (https://e-estonia.com/), all while having a 1.3m population. What does the USA do better exactly?

Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#36

Post by verttii »

WaylonKenning wrote: post #33
HNcantBtrustd wrote: post #15

I can't fathom what life is like in such a small country. If 1 major company goes out of business, does it cause chaos? High unemployment and lower tax revenue sounds like any moment the country could find itself in an economic depression. In my local area this almost happened.

I'm from New Zealand. What's our major companies? None of them employ more than 20,000 employees globally. Sure that's a lot of people to lose a job, but the big companies are building, groceries, airlines, and telecommunications. If the companies go under, the demand for the products doesn't disappear. As for unemployment rate, 3.9%. Pretty close to the UK, USA, China. As for tax, on $100K USD, you'd be taxed 28.3%…

Interesting, since New Zealand is in many ways comparable with Finland.

In Finland the tax rate for $100K USD would be 41.3% on average. The common consumption tax is 24% (VAT). On top of that, certain goods like alcohol, gas, cars, could have additional goods specific tax that could be well over 100%.

Unemployment stands at I think 6.6%.

Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#37

Post by outside1234 »

hylaride wrote: post #17
algui91 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, what a shame, I though it was real :-(

It's never as real or good as you think. France's famous 35 hour workweek only really applies to people who clock in hourly wages. Even there, it's merely the number where overtime kicks in. If you're a professional/salaried you work as much as the job requires, just like the US.

Plus it is super difficult to get said professional/salaried job because they are so afraid of hiring folks.

Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#38

Post by rusticpenn »

verttii wrote: post #32
toxik wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed on that. Scandinavian work ethic and culture is in my opinion good, and puts emphasis on overcoming hierarchical inertia (e.g. we don't use titles) and lateral thinking in a way that I feel North Americans don't, rather, the emphasis is on "the grind." Putting in insane hours, staying after the boss, etc. A thin veneer of productivity if you ask me. The reason the US excels in business is, I would say…

Well just dropping a link to a news article or a study wouldn't really change things. If you look at who's the one producing major digital innovations it's still USA. Sure the Nordic countries are smaller but it's hard to compete against countries like USA with well educated people with strong work ethic when you're pushing in half the hours. Sweden sure is doing well with digital innovations but can't say that the r…

That is related to the funding in silicon valley. So many people who want to do startups in europe move to silicon valley.

Re: Why Finland leads the world in flexible work

#40

Post by verttii »

askosh wrote: post #35
verttii wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well just dropping a link to a news article or a study wouldn't really change things. If you look at who's the one producing major digital innovations it's still USA. Sure the Nordic countries are smaller but it's hard to compete against countries like USA with well educated people with strong work ethic when you're pushing in half the hours. Sweden sure is doing well with digital innovations but can't say that the r…

I'm an Estonian, also a nordic country. We have a bunch of things we are years ahead of in terms of digital innovations ( https://e-estonia.com/ ), all while having a 1.3m population. What does the USA do better exactly?

Estonia is certainly performing well. But since it's so tiny it's really hard to compare against a giant like USA. Although much of the same problem applies to Nordics.

We use Google, Facebook, Youtube, Snapchat, Whatsapp, Apple - all American products. Whereas the Nordic countries produce very few major digital innovations used globally.

Also, I didn't know Estonia was a Nordic country.

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