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Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

latimes.com

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Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#101

Post by PixyMisa »

markus_zhang wrote: post #58
Joakal wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The protestors have defaced CCP liason office with Shina, blame CCP for Carrie Lam being elected, angry about CCP kidnapping book sellers, even the protest against the bill is because it will allow CCP to extradite HongKongers to China, and more. Unless the government changes in China, China = CCP. If CCP wasn't in power any more, a lot of protestors wouldn't mind HongKong being part of China. The protestors know if…

Some people are actually asking for independence and they were not getting shot. That said, I guess it's equally difficult for people to imagine that Chinese government has been very, very generous to the Hong Kong people. But that's generally true from a Chinese' pov. Generous to the point that a lot of mainlanders are actively complaining on online forums.

> Some people are actually asking for independence and they were not getting shot.

That is considered a fairly low bar by Western standards.

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#102

Post by GuiA »

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #13

Serious question: I've got a couple of mainland Chinese acquaintances on my social networks, who are real people but also busily spouting Chinese government propaganda. As the article says, I don't expect them to change their views overnight, but I would like to plant some seeds of doubt. Any suggestions for links to suitable content? (Ideally accessible from behind the GFW, although most can VPN outside it.) For exa…

Equally serious question: Why do you want to plant seeds of doubt?

I suspect you are likely to answer something like “because it’s for their own good”, or “because they have a right to the Truth”.

Have you considered that what is good/true for people is heavily dependent on their personal circumstances?

If, after planting those seeds of doubt, your friend or one of their family members suddenly disappears and you never hear from them ever again, what part of the burden will you choose to bear?

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#103

Post by markus_zhang »

Quekid5 wrote: post #83
Mikeb85 wrote: post #30

I think a lot of people who were born in the west don't understand that, when you're very poor, economic circumstances matter more than political freedom. After all, having money (or not) affects what you can or cannot do far more than whoever's in charge. Chinese people today have lived through an economic miracle. If I lived there I doubt I'd criticize their system, especially considering people still can remember…

I think Sapolsky's Behave also had a good insight here (not his, just referenced) about the importance of the general culture of a region -- namely whether it's a Collectivist or Individualist. This simple dichotomy can explain a great many misunderstandings, talkings-past-each-other and (interestingly) quite a few differences in moral judgements.

Yes it's true. The more I live in western countries the less I argue with other people about these political things. Today might be the exception though...people are right to have their own views, there is no need to agree with each other...

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#104

Post by ackbar03 »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #30

I think a lot of people who were born in the west don't understand that, when you're very poor, economic circumstances matter more than political freedom. After all, having money (or not) affects what you can or cannot do far more than whoever's in charge. Chinese people today have lived through an economic miracle. If I lived there I doubt I'd criticize their system, especially considering people still can remember…

Totally agree and glad this comment is at the top, so many western commentators don't understand this. The Chinese people are aware they live in a autocratic regime but they didn't build up their country into an economic powerhouse by complaining about freedom of speech all day like western countries. They put their head down and got to work and made do with what they had. When ridiculous censorship rules like banning Winnie the pooh images were imposed they just made jokes about it instead of throwing a tantrum. That being said I concur it is possible that in the long term too much autocratic power to its rulers could lead to blowback the day the people at the top truly lose their minds but the ccp has generally been quite competent compared to what we might see at the white house (although I guess this is debatable). I think Hong Kong could learn a thing or two from the Chinese people

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#105

Post by cassbot »

ccccppppp wrote: post #25

Or how many Russians don't understand why Ukraine for example is upset. Is as if propaganda works. Who would have thought. Once I was discussing with a Chinese colleague and the Tiananmen subject came up (it was in the news, I didn't bring it up), and he told me that the students were not that innocent either, that they killed 150 soldiers the night before. I asked him, how could some students with rocks kill 150 sol…

As a Chinese American, I've noticed that propaganda is everywhere and we all need to be wary of it.

Tiananmen is often brought up, but did you know that the US experienced a parallel event? I didn't learn about this in US history class, but apparently soldiers fired upon unarmed student protesters in the Kent State shooting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#106

Post by zwaps »

Leary wrote: post #91

The thing that many people in the West do not realize is that exposure to Western media actually hardens Chinese perceptions. There are many examples of Chinese students who lived many years in China whose perceptions of their homeland is far different than what they see is being portrayed on CNN/Fox, etc. The reason why this occurs is not that CNN/Fox are factually incorrect but that they tend to focus on sensationa…

If you like "toy models" of these phenomenon, you will love this paper

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Yves_Zenou/publication/...

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#107

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

bidluo wrote: post #82
appleiigs wrote: post #27

I had a similar experience chatting to my former coworker (who moved recently from China) regarding Taiwan. I said Taiwan is pretty much an independent country given it has it's own currency, military and democratic government. She looked at me like I was telling her the earth was flat. She was smart and good natured, and didn't have any opposing reasons, but she insisted Taiwan was simply another province of China.…

My girlfriend is the same, this Hong Kong issue has been quite the discussion point whenever something news worthy happens. I'm pretty sure some of my beliefs has been swayed by western propaganda but she believes China is not in the wrong here, she knows loosely about 1984 and is aware of what's happening with muslims but with HK she and a lot of my other mainland friends think the protesters are destroying everythi…

Everyone feels a lack of free speech about issues they want to discuss. The hard part is establishing a shared understanding that some issues you'd like to discuss will always end up being inconvenient to the powers that be. Most Chinese citizens I've seen discuss the issue argue that they're simply immune to the problem; that as long as you're a responsible person just trying to live a good life, the government won't end up strongly interfering with what you want to say.

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#108

Post by HighValuation »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #30

I think a lot of people who were born in the west don't understand that, when you're very poor, economic circumstances matter more than political freedom. After all, having money (or not) affects what you can or cannot do far more than whoever's in charge. Chinese people today have lived through an economic miracle. If I lived there I doubt I'd criticize their system, especially considering people still can remember…

[dead]

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#109

Post by WatermelonApe »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #30

I think a lot of people who were born in the west don't understand that, when you're very poor, economic circumstances matter more than political freedom. After all, having money (or not) affects what you can or cannot do far more than whoever's in charge. Chinese people today have lived through an economic miracle. If I lived there I doubt I'd criticize their system, especially considering people still can remember…

[dead]

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#110

Post by USpropaganda »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #30

I think a lot of people who were born in the west don't understand that, when you're very poor, economic circumstances matter more than political freedom. After all, having money (or not) affects what you can or cannot do far more than whoever's in charge. Chinese people today have lived through an economic miracle. If I lived there I doubt I'd criticize their system, especially considering people still can remember…

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