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A new AMP update shows how it can infiltrate every corner of the internet

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Re: A new AMP update shows how it can infiltrate every corner of the internet

#81

Post by buboard »

AgentME wrote: post #24
buboard wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are building another monstrosity to be able to masquerade as your entire domain. But it is optional , of course /s

Website authors opting in to letting another server serve content "as" their own domain isn't anything new: it's what CDNs do. The Signed Exchanges standard is actually a huge step up because the website authors get to cryptographically sign their content. With normal CDNs, if the CDN is malicious or gets hacked, the CDN is free to serve modified content on the original domain.

I can already smell the fake news from hacked keys, and authoritarians demanding keys from media sites. Congrats, we found just another way to break the resilience of decentralisation

Re: A new AMP update shows how it can infiltrate every corner of the internet

#82

Post by majewsky »

ethbro wrote: post #69
cameronbrown wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are an outlier. Most people will not pan around to read an article - they'll just switch to an app instead of the web.

Are you sure? Content monitizers are heavily incentivized to switch users from web to app. So is this user-orginated or owner-pressured?

Even if it is owner-pressured, over time people grow accustomed to the linear presentation that's dominant in apps. People like when new stuff works like stuff they already know.

Re: A new AMP update shows how it can infiltrate every corner of the internet

#83

Post by superasn »

acdha wrote: post #52
superasn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not but the web is literally unusable if I use any other browser not based on chrome because: - The search is degraded (it hides the advanced search menu in Google and most dropdowns in ff) - Most of the sites use Recaptcha or cloudflare (also an extension of recaptcha) which gives you a low bot score if you're using anything other than chrome and then begins the never ending exercise of identifying car…

None of those are true in my experience using Firefox or Safari. I don’t know if you are using extensions or something like Tor but it might be worth trying again in a clean install.

Idk, but this has been a pet peeve of mine for a very long time now and I've posted about it before also with screenshots [1] and lot of people have agreed they have faced the same problems and we had a long discussion about it.

So there is definitely truth in it.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20295333

Re: A new AMP update shows how it can infiltrate every corner of the internet

#84

Post by majewsky »

Xelbair wrote: post #61
magashna wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can't be that "literally unusable" since I've been using FF for over 10 years and never had any of these issues

The only ones i come in contact with are horrible captchas on FF and god awfully slow gmail(that looks loaded but takes minutes(!) to work)

The ReCaptcha annoyance has gotten better for me recently. In about 50% of cases, I get the green checkmark without having to solve any puzzles.

Re: A new AMP update shows how it can infiltrate every corner of the internet

#85

Post by acdha »

superasn wrote: post #83
acdha wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those are true in my experience using Firefox or Safari. I don’t know if you are using extensions or something like Tor but it might be worth trying again in a clean install.

Idk, but this has been a pet peeve of mine for a very long time now and I've posted about it before also with screenshots [1] and lot of people have agreed they have faced the same problems and we had a long discussion about it. So there is definitely truth in it. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20295333

I’m definitely not saying that you aren’t experiencing it, only that it’s uncommon and usually seems to be triggered by using a VPN or other shared connections.

Re: A new AMP update shows how it can infiltrate every corner of the internet

#86

Post by aww_dang »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #76

I'm confused. The title of this article isn't at all supported by its content. The entire thing can be summarized as: > Google rolled out a new feature that allows AMP to use server-side rendering (SSR), boosting performance for sites that adopt the technology across their entire domain. Followed by a dozen paragraphs arguing why AMP is bad, with no further mention of server side rendering or why it "shows how [AMP]…

Is there any irony in this? SPAs are often the pages which are excessively heavy. Not saying it can't be done well. Just that these pages are frequent offenders.

Re: A new AMP update shows how it can infiltrate every corner of the internet

#87

Post by kerkeslager »

I'm going to make a rare exception to my usual hating on Google, and say that AMP is great for users.

I'd like to see a move back to a document-based web rather than a web-application-based web: CSS and JavaScript have not been good for users. A document-based web allows users to pull down content and render it on their machines using programs users control. Coupling content with CSS and JavaScript means that users must use a website's CSS and JavaScript to render the content, which means that users must give up control of how the content is rendered. The results are predictable: most websites have crap accessibility, run a bunch of malware[1] that has nothing to do with rendering, and have user interfaces are all over the place (every website is different so you have to learn a new interface every time you visit a new website, even if they're presenting the same kinds of content).

Why should we let websites determine how content is rendered? I can pull down an AMP page and view the content the way I want to view it, so this gives me as a user a lot more power.

Sure, the most common case right now is that Google renders it on their page, and that gives power to Google. But that's just trading one evil (Google) for another (content providers who package content with malware)--as a user that's not really a net gain or loss. But having content shipped in a more document-based format is a big gain for users.

[1] Code which runs on my computer to show me ads is adware. Code which runs on my computer to send data about me to companies is spyware. If these were written in Python and packaged with a desktop program everyone would call them adware and spyware, but if they're written in JavaScript and packaged with a web application they're ubiquitous and accepted.

Re: A new AMP update shows how it can infiltrate every corner of the internet

#88

Post by superasn »

acdha wrote: post #85
superasn wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk, but this has been a pet peeve of mine for a very long time now and I've posted about it before also with screenshots [1] and lot of people have agreed they have faced the same problems and we had a long discussion about it. So there is definitely truth in it. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20295333

I’m definitely not saying that you aren’t experiencing it, only that it’s uncommon and usually seems to be triggered by using a VPN or other shared connections.

Using neither. No addons or vpn or anything. Can't really say about shared connections if that is something my ISP is doing but the point is shouldn't vpn or shared connections affect chrome browser equally? Yet this only happens when using ff.

If you read the thread above a lot many people face this too, so at least this Recaptcha bs is quite true and prevalent.

Re: A new AMP update shows how it can infiltrate every corner of the internet

#89

Post by meowface »

esrauch wrote: post #63
dkersten wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, 99% of people care more about aesthetics than about than content? Got anything to back that up?

I'm surely still not in the 99% but honestly there's hardly any content that individually actually matters to me, it's almost all info-tainment. If it's hard to read then I won't bother at all. There's exceptions like restaurant menus at specific places that I'm considering, but certainly there's no mainstream news article that's worth me staining my eyes over: if it loads a desktop site on my mobile phone I'll defin…

Exactly. Privacy and revenue-leeching issues aside, as an end user, I love AMP. Near-instant loading of articles with all the horrible bullshit and clutter removed? What's not to love?

I constantly find myself closing pages on mobile within the first second if they're taking too long to render or if they become fucked up from all the ads and comments and social media button, each one dislocating other elements and moving them around as it renders, or just because they were poorly designed for mobile.

There's a huge chunk of content I never bother to see because it's too much of a pain in the ass to actually read on my phone. If I have to adjust the zoom or scroll to a different part of the page to see any text, you've probably already lost me, unless it's content I went out of my way to seek out.

Re: A new AMP update shows how it can infiltrate every corner of the internet

#90

Post by magashna »

Xelbair wrote: post #61
magashna wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can't be that "literally unusable" since I've been using FF for over 10 years and never had any of these issues

The only ones i come in contact with are horrible captchas on FF and god awfully slow gmail(that looks loaded but takes minutes(!) to work)

I occasionally have captcha issues (which usually ends with me leaving the site altogether) but it's likely due to all the addons I have like uBlock Origin and Privacy Badger. Google desperately wants to know who you are and where you're going. Annoying captchas are the response to saying "none of your business"
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