Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#111

Post by pier25 » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 1:45 PM UTC

andreasley wrote: post #19

dessant wrote: post #6

It's unfortunate how Apple and Google approach device ownership, and their attitude towards the concept of general computing is concerning. We do not control our own devices, we cannot stop certain processes on them, and we do not know where our personal data is sent. We either have to flash ROMs from questionable sources and apply temporary exploits to get some kind of resemblance of control of our own devices, or w…

I think Apple's approach is the only reasonable one for the general population. The technological complexity of any smartphone is far beyond comprehension for most people. I write iOS software for a living, and even with complete access to the source code, I couldn't reasonably evaluate my iPhone's software - let alone the hardware. The idea that ROMs from questionable sources make your device safer sounds very stran…

> I think Apple's approach is the only reasonable one for the general population.

The general population uses macOS just fine.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#112

Post by npongratz » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 1:45 PM UTC

jchb wrote: post #108

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can get a developer account, build and sign your own executables, and run whatever you want on your iPhone. Sure, for an extra $100 every single year. Apple charging money for a feature does not protect users.

> Apple charging money for a feature does not protect users. The $99 is not likely to make them money. It is a token fee to protect the app store from the simplest spam and scam apps.

Sure, it's a mere token for Apple, but it is a significant, recurring financial and logistical hurdle for me when I simply want the ability to use my pocket computing/surveillance device -- which I've already paid for -- in ways I deem fit.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#113

Post by pier25 » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 1:46 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #27

dessant wrote: post #6

It's unfortunate how Apple and Google approach device ownership, and their attitude towards the concept of general computing is concerning. We do not control our own devices, we cannot stop certain processes on them, and we do not know where our personal data is sent. We either have to flash ROMs from questionable sources and apply temporary exploits to get some kind of resemblance of control of our own devices, or w…

Or, you know, buy something else. Before the"locked devices, people had the inverse problem: everything was two open ended and complicated, could cripple the system, stuff was open for exploit (much more so than in this case of unpatched vulnerability, viruses were everyday occurence). Techies didn't have this issue, but the general public did (heck, even techies did suffer somewhat). And that might have been OK for…

> everything was two open ended and complicated, could cripple the system, stuff was open for exploit

Maybe on Windows, but on macOS this has never been generally a problem.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#114

Post by throwaway156503 » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 1:49 PM UTC

zapzupnz wrote: post #94

dessant wrote: post #6

It's unfortunate how Apple and Google approach device ownership, and their attitude towards the concept of general computing is concerning. We do not control our own devices, we cannot stop certain processes on them, and we do not know where our personal data is sent. We either have to flash ROMs from questionable sources and apply temporary exploits to get some kind of resemblance of control of our own devices, or w…

Goodness me it gets tiring seeing a post like this every time an article about iOS comes up. It's a legitimate point to make, but it should rather be that we talk about the content of the article rather than bring out the 'Apple's taking our freedom away' soapbox. It inevitably turns into a debate between one side who values personal freedoms but won't be told to buy Android phones widespread safety, security, and pr…

So let me ask, why make this comment? Why reply like this? To shut people's concerns down? There's no value here. There's nothing to be gained. Conversely, sometimes it's OK just to let people complain: without the sentiment, how do you know if people still care?

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#115

Post by Wowfunhappy » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 1:49 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #105

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can get a developer account, build and sign your own executables, and run whatever you want on your iPhone. Sure, for an extra $100 every single year. Apple charging money for a feature does not protect users.

If you want to develop applications (or run arbitrary code) on their stack, which they spend billions of dollars developing and maintaining, yes, it will cost you $100/year. Or you can get a free dev account, but the feature set it more limited and signatures are only good for 7 days. Apple charges money for features so that they remain in business to keep making more features, and security updates too. So it is, in…

> And signatures are only good for 7 days.

And again, how does that restriction protect users? As I see it, it's entirely user-hostile: it ensures any self-created apps aren't really usable.

If the limit was significantly longer, I would mostly shut up about all of this.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#116

Post by pathseeker » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 1:49 PM UTC

zapzupnz wrote: post #94

dessant wrote: post #6

It's unfortunate how Apple and Google approach device ownership, and their attitude towards the concept of general computing is concerning. We do not control our own devices, we cannot stop certain processes on them, and we do not know where our personal data is sent. We either have to flash ROMs from questionable sources and apply temporary exploits to get some kind of resemblance of control of our own devices, or w…

Goodness me it gets tiring seeing a post like this every time an article about iOS comes up. It's a legitimate point to make, but it should rather be that we talk about the content of the article rather than bring out the 'Apple's taking our freedom away' soapbox. It inevitably turns into a debate between one side who values personal freedoms but won't be told to buy Android phones widespread safety, security, and pr…

It's an article about enabling a jailbreak and you are mad that people talk about jailbreaking needing to be a thing?

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#117

Post by adamisom » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

throwaway156503 wrote: post #114

zapzupnz wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goodness me it gets tiring seeing a post like this every time an article about iOS comes up. It's a legitimate point to make, but it should rather be that we talk about the content of the article rather than bring out the 'Apple's taking our freedom away' soapbox. It inevitably turns into a debate between one side who values personal freedoms but won't be told to buy Android phones widespread safety, security, and pr…

So let me ask, why make this comment? Why reply like this? To shut people's concerns down? There's no value here. There's nothing to be gained. Conversely, sometimes it's OK just to let people complain: without the sentiment, how do you know if people still care?

It’s pretty obvious what the point is. It’s to complain about the soapbox / complaints in hopes of seeing less such comments in the future.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#118

Post by kgwxd » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 1:51 PM UTC

zapzupnz wrote: post #94

dessant wrote: post #6

It's unfortunate how Apple and Google approach device ownership, and their attitude towards the concept of general computing is concerning. We do not control our own devices, we cannot stop certain processes on them, and we do not know where our personal data is sent. We either have to flash ROMs from questionable sources and apply temporary exploits to get some kind of resemblance of control of our own devices, or w…

Goodness me it gets tiring seeing a post like this every time an article about iOS comes up. It's a legitimate point to make, but it should rather be that we talk about the content of the article rather than bring out the 'Apple's taking our freedom away' soapbox. It inevitably turns into a debate between one side who values personal freedoms but won't be told to buy Android phones widespread safety, security, and pr…

If a problem is presented, someone is going to bring up a solution. The right solution has been the same for a long time, Apple hasn't implemented it yet. Maybe they'll never implement it, but maybe someone will consider alternatives because of the comment.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#119

Post by pier25 » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

I've never understood why iOS isn't more like macOS. There aren't really any technical reasons why this couldn't be.

It's common for the security argument to be used to justify Apple's practices, but Mac users have been perfectly fine installing third party apps such as Transmit, Adobe Photoshop, or even Google Chrome from outside of Apple's walled garden. I've been using macOS since 2007 and I've never had a virus or any security problem, nor anyone else I know using a Mac. From my dev colleagues to my 70 year old mother in law or my 15 year old nephew.

It seems to me the only real arguments for Apple's walled garden are economical.

Re: Apple Accidentally Unpatches Vulnerability, Leading to New iOS 12.4 Jailbreak

#120

Post by dmos62 » Wed, Aug 21, 2019, 1:53 PM UTC

zapzupnz wrote: post #94

dessant wrote: post #6

It's unfortunate how Apple and Google approach device ownership, and their attitude towards the concept of general computing is concerning. We do not control our own devices, we cannot stop certain processes on them, and we do not know where our personal data is sent. We either have to flash ROMs from questionable sources and apply temporary exploits to get some kind of resemblance of control of our own devices, or w…

Goodness me it gets tiring seeing a post like this every time an article about iOS comes up. It's a legitimate point to make, but it should rather be that we talk about the content of the article rather than bring out the 'Apple's taking our freedom away' soapbox. It inevitably turns into a debate between one side who values personal freedoms but won't be told to buy Android phones widespread safety, security, and pr…

Well there aren't any great alternatives. The state of general computing (as parent puts it) is frustrating, and people talk about it, sometimes by switching from a related topic. It's venting. Are there more productive ways of dealing with this? Maybe; but seemingly part of the frustration is that the average consumer feels powerless. Even your meta-post could be classed as a way to deal with this frustration. And, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss venting as a waste of energy: it raises awareness, and in the right setting it can lead to discussions of the cause, and what could be done about it.