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IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

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Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#71

Post by munk-a »

conanbatt wrote: post #63
toomuchtodo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems less effective than working to ensure everyone pays what they owe.

That is not liking taxes: that is liking taxes on others.

No, it's appreciating society where everyone puts in according to their ability to make something we can all enjoy.

I'm fine with people who are unable to contribute putting less in, I'm not fine with people who exploit the system - and before some BS about welfare queens gets injected... I also care about scale, the amount of missed revenue from corporate taxes far outweighs how people below the poverty line are able to abuse the system - right now it even seems like they're getting the sharp end of the stick to support the top earners - rather than the squeeze being on the middle class.

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#72

Post by cptskippy »

danenania wrote: post #29
berbec wrote: post #3

The act of reducing the manpower of the IRS needed to enforce the laws may have a greater effect than all the tax cuts combined. If a business is fairly certain an audit isn't coming, their effective tax rate is whatever they want it to be.

Also important is what happens to a business that gets caught. If the punishment is 'pay back taxes plus a moderate penalty, and here we'll even set up a convenient payment plan for you', then cheating on taxes is effectively a free roll. You have a 95% chance of saving a ton of money, and 5% chance of paying only a bit more than you would have paid anyway if you followed the laws. That said, the absurd complexity of…

The complexity is by design to make it harder to audit and easier to hide cheating.

Given clear and straightforward code/laws, it becomes hard to cheat.

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#73

Post by vageli »

vkou wrote: post #48
utopian3 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IRS has (this decade) targeted specific institutions by their affiliations: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy (Read the fourth paragraph of this page)

And? Why are audits targeted to a type of organization a problem? If doctors started forming non-profits to do financial engineering to get tax-exempt status, I'd sure as hell hope that the IRS would devote a bit more scrutiny than usual to practitioners of that profession. Political groups started doing financial engineering to get tax-exempt status. The IRS started auditing them a bit more closely. I don't see the…

> And? Why are audits targeted to a type of organization a problem?

> If doctors started forming non-profits to do financial engineering to get tax-exempt status, I'd sure as hell hope that the IRS would devote a bit more scrutiny than usual to practitioners of that profession.

> Political groups started doing financial engineering to get tax-exempt status. The IRS started auditing them a bit more closely. I don't see the issue.

The country's inspector general deemed it unlawful. Given the report that came out from the investigation, there seems to be more to the audits than neutral scrutiny that is not performed on the basis of ideology.

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#74

Post by BurningFrog »

specialist wrote: post #36
nostromo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Anyone opposing more police officers and equipment is looking to break the law.” Just as I don’t want a bored cop on every street corner, I also don’t want the IRS to be staffed to maximize revenue. It’s a balance.

"It’s a balance." What would that look like?

One way to maximize revenue would be for every tax payer to be audited every year.

Things like that is what I think about when I hear some of the hardline comments here.

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#75

Post by munk-a »

conanbatt wrote: post #66
groby_b wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happily, if as a trade I can send the people who don't pay for civilization to an isolated desert where they not preaching libertarianism at the expense of everybody else. Taxes are a membership fee for society. I'm fine with people declaring themselves not members of the society, but they don't get to use the club room then, either.

> Taxes are a membership fee for society If only you could appreciate that the US was founded protesting a 5% GDP tax rate.

And then proceeded to exceed that 5% tax rate as it built the society we all live in today. Only since the 80s have things gotten really perverse and has this extremist libretarianism gotten any real traction.

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#76

Post by groby_b »

conanbatt wrote: post #66
groby_b wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happily, if as a trade I can send the people who don't pay for civilization to an isolated desert where they not preaching libertarianism at the expense of everybody else. Taxes are a membership fee for society. I'm fine with people declaring themselves not members of the society, but they don't get to use the club room then, either.

> Taxes are a membership fee for society If only you could appreciate that the US was founded protesting a 5% GDP tax rate.

If only you could appreciate that it was

* founded by wealthy landowners interested in protecting their interests

* that 5% tax wasn't going towards US infrastructure

* 200+ years have passed since, and we've gone past horse-drawn carriages

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#77

Post by ergothus »

nostromo wrote: post #35
kurthr wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the people "getting away with it" in this case aren't those paying withholding or even mostly individuals... they're corporations bilking the government and every other taxpayer. It's more like cutting back on the FBI when there's an outbreak of organized crime...

The problem is Congress, not the IRS. Most corporations pay the amount of tax they owe under the law, but the law is written to allow tax evasion. The IRS can’t do anything about this. The fix is to close several well known loopholes.

And yet, we've been in a state for decades where a $1 increase in IRS budget results in more than $1 in income, yet their budget has continued to be cut.

I'm all for closing down those well-known loopholes, but that doesn't mean there won't be loopholes, or just people/companies not paying what they owe.

At this stage, those of us that ARE paying our taxes are the ones being taken advantage of.

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#78

Post by metamet »

Kapura wrote: post #14

Greed is winning in America. Any person or political party that is trying to reduce staffing for a tax collection agency is trying to get away with tax fraud or they are working for somebody who is. It is far past the time to recognise this.

Elizabeth Warren has set this up as the core paradigm in her campaign.

She posits that greed and corruption have overtaken the American government's purpose, especially in the last 25 years. Money, through lobbying and other forms of influence, now dictates who the government works for. It works for large corporations, pharmaceuticals and the oil industry (for example) rather than America's citizens and workers--specifically with access to healthcare, a living wage and a clean planet.

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#79

Post by HNcantBtrustd »

pmoriarty wrote: post #25

And yet some people manage to whip themselves in to a righteous frenzy over someone collecting welfare or immigrants getting a microscopic bit of state aid. Such people really need to get a sense of proportion. The destitute, despised, downtrodden guy who slaves away to support their family by mowing your lawn, picking apples for you, driving you somewhere, or serving you your burger is not your enemy.

> not my enemy

But we have an adversial relationship.

If they are successful, they take our money, and get it for nothing.

So if they win, I lose.

Compared to a company, who's trying to create new useful products and services.

Everyone wins with this interaction.

There is multithousand year old history on the effect of subsidies. They hurt at least as much as they help.

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#80

Post by abtinf »

sdinsn wrote: post #70
abtinf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When have healthcare or education ever been cut? Edit: A lot of downvotes, but no examples. Such cuts are always talked about as if though they have factually happened. To my knowledge, I’ve never actually seen such a cut in the United States at the federal, state, or local level. Sometimes, there have been attempts to limit the rate of spending growth, but those seem to always fail too.

The governor of Alaska just signed a bill that cut 41% off the state budget for higher education.

Thank you for the example. However, it appears that the governor reversed course just yesterday: https://news.yahoo.com/alaska-governor-reverses-course-contr...

I've noticed this is a frequent occurance--one faction will try to score political points by appearing to take an action, only to capitulate at the end when fewer people are looking.

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