IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business • Hacker News Board

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#41

Post by vkou » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 6:09 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #34

vkou wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because when cops have nothing better to do, they harass and assault people for all sorts of subjective made up infractions. I do not expect a properly staffed tax agency to.

> they harass and assault people for all sorts of subjective made up infractions. The IRS does this all the time. And unlike criminal law, the burden of proof is on the accused, not the state.

Does it actually disproportionately harass people who follow proper accounting practices, and who report their income correctly? Is it harassment when they actually identify that money was owed?

Or is this just a meme largely spread by a demographic who is upset that their magic internet money is, in fact, subject to taxes (or, alternatively, a demographic that thinks all taxes are theft)?

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#42

Post by RyanAF7 » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 6:10 PM UTC

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #23

RyanAF7 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. A faction you say? You mean like the faction that drafted the Articles of Confederation?

No, the contemporary one that learned nothing from that folly.

Oh! The one that found success with the Laffer Curve. Right.

Freedom isn't an idea. It's an actual place. In terms of kingdoms a free peoples kingdom is a Freedom; and you don't have to pay someone for the right to exist.

Oddly enough we agree, there is a faction in the US pursuing its own agenda.

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#43

Post by masklinn » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 6:11 PM UTC

txsoftwaredev wrote: post #26

Spellman wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally they don't harass people unless something seems amiss and there is a large enough discrepancy to justify it. And there's eventually a marginal tipping point where more money spent in audits won't net more recovered revenue. Generally the smaller the fry, the less you can recover from them.

Unless you were a conservative group a few years back. 'The controversy began in 2013 when an IRS official admitted the agency had been aggressively scrutinizing groups with names such as "Tea Party" and "Patriots."' https://www.npr.org/2017/10/27/560308997/irs-apologizes-for-...

> the agency had been aggressively scrutinizing groups with names such as "Tea Party" and "Patriots."

So the IRS was profiling pro-profiling groups based on their extensive association with anti-tax and anti-government political currents, expecting that people who don't think they should pay taxes may well be trying to avoid paying taxes less than honestly?

According to KOS at the time, literally the only group which got their 501(c)(4) application reviewed and rejected during that "scandal" was a progressive one. Meanwhile a bunch of "tea party" associates got their 501(c)(4) (or worse 501(c)(4)) despite historical and ongoing partisan political work.

Sounds like "conservatives v twitter", where conservatives cry foul every time they get on a blocklist, and twitter replies that they can't autoban white supremacists the way they did ISIS because it'd throw out half the republican conference and a significant fraction of their followers.

All in all, just more and more examples of Wilhoit's hypothesis

> Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.

[0] https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2013/5/19/1210132/-The-Only...

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#44

Post by raws » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 6:11 PM UTC

Kapura wrote: post #14

Greed is winning in America. Any person or political party that is trying to reduce staffing for a tax collection agency is trying to get away with tax fraud or they are working for somebody who is. It is far past the time to recognise this.

What do you mean? Smaller governments work better for the same or greater workloads, of course?!

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#45

Post by davinic » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 6:11 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #25

And yet some people manage to whip themselves in to a righteous frenzy over someone collecting welfare or immigrants getting a microscopic bit of state aid. Such people really need to get a sense of proportion. The destitute, despised, downtrodden guy who slaves away to support their family by mowing your lawn, picking apples for you, driving you somewhere, or serving you your burger is not your enemy.

Last week I saw a person on Facebook sharing an anecdote patterned after the "welfare queen" trope and arguing against food stamps.

I noticed from her Facebook page that she owned a ranching operation, so I searched her name in the EWG Farm Subsidy Database and saw that she and her husband had received $18k in subsidies in 2018, and nearly $250k since 1995.

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#46

Post by ceejayoz » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 6:12 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #35

kurthr wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the people "getting away with it" in this case aren't those paying withholding or even mostly individuals... they're corporations bilking the government and every other taxpayer. It's more like cutting back on the FBI when there's an outbreak of organized crime...

The problem is Congress, not the IRS. Most corporations pay the amount of tax they owe under the law, but the law is written to allow tax evasion. The IRS can’t do anything about this. The fix is to close several well known loopholes.

The IRS can't go after people using legal loopholes, but that has little to do with what's being discussed here.

The enforcement arm, which goes after people who aren't using loopholes, but committing actual tax fraud (and stuff like non-filers), has a ROI of something like $5 for every $1 spent. Cutting its budget is like burning piles of taxpayer dollars in a barrel.

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#47

Post by conanbatt » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 6:13 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #30

nostromo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Anyone opposing more police officers and equipment is looking to break the law.” Just as I don’t want a bored cop on every street corner, I also don’t want the IRS to be staffed to maximize revenue. It’s a balance.

I like taxes; with them we buy civilization. I want the IRS to have whatever resources are necessary to collect every tax dollar owed (but not a dollar more) according to tax statue.

> I like taxes; with them we buy civilization.

You are welcome to over-report them for your own satisfaction.

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#48

Post by vkou » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 6:13 PM UTC

utopian3 wrote: post #32

vkou wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because when cops have nothing better to do, they harass and assault people for all sorts of subjective made up infractions. I do not expect a properly staffed tax agency to.

The IRS has (this decade) targeted specific institutions by their affiliations: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy (Read the fourth paragraph of this page)

And? Why are audits targeted to a type of organization a problem?

If doctors started forming non-profits to do financial engineering to get tax-exempt status, I'd sure as hell hope that the IRS would devote a bit more scrutiny than usual to practitioners of that profession.

Political groups started doing financial engineering to get tax-exempt status. The IRS started auditing them a bit more closely. I don't see the issue.

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#49

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 6:13 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #24

nostromo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Anyone opposing more police officers and equipment is looking to break the law.” Just as I don’t want a bored cop on every street corner, I also don’t want the IRS to be staffed to maximize revenue. It’s a balance.

That's because when cops have nothing better to do, they harass and assault people for all sorts of subjective made up infractions. I do not expect a properly staffed tax agency to.

[deleted]

Re: IRS budget cuts cost $34.3B in lost revenue from big business

#50

Post by toomuchtodo » Tue, Aug 20, 2019, 6:13 PM UTC

conanbatt wrote: post #47

toomuchtodo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like taxes; with them we buy civilization. I want the IRS to have whatever resources are necessary to collect every tax dollar owed (but not a dollar more) according to tax statue.

> I like taxes; with them we buy civilization. You are welcome to over-report them for your own satisfaction.

Seems less effective than working to ensure everyone pays what they owe.