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California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

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Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#161

Post by seanmcdirmid »

chucksmash wrote: post #92
hristov wrote: post #56

This is very much a problem but it is incorrectly stated as California's problem. This America’s problem. It just so happens that because California is relatively rich, tends to have some of the most tolerable year round weather and the people are relatively compassionate a large percentage of the homeless of all of America are moving to California. How many times have you heard some politician or just an ordinary pe…

> How many times have you heard some politician or just an ordinary person from the south or the midwest say something to the effect “we have a great homelessness policy, we buy each homeless person a bus ticket to California and send them on their way!” They usually say this with pride or with a laugh instead of being embarrassed as they should be. In fact if i remember correctly this was part of the plot of a south…

Historically, the western states tend to be composed of transplants in general. It’s like, is it really weird that some homeless guy is from out of state when that tech worker is also? It’s been like that since the Great Depression with people like the Oakies.

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#162

Post by seanmcdirmid »

microtherion wrote: post #107
mdorazio wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not quite that simple. The West Coast has seen a huge influx of homeless people (ex. [1] - 12% YoY increase in LA) while the nation overall has seen a drop [2]. If your homeless population is steady or falling it's easier to build enough services for them than if thousands more arrive every year. Also, I agree that more shelters and services need to be built, but it would be nice if the Federal government pitche…

> The West Coast has seen a huge influx of homeless people Your source shows an INCREASE of homeless people, but not necessarily an INFLUX, i.e. it's not clear whether the newly homeless are in fact "arriving" (from out of state) or have been prior residents who lost their shelter. Anecdotally, I don't think I've ever met somebody who had a PLAN to move to California to be homeless there. But I've met a number of peo…

The west coast has always been a popular destination for people with big dreams but perhaps without much means. It isn’t really weird that homeless are just as likely to be transplants as non homeless residents.

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#163

Post by seanmcdirmid »

licyeus wrote: post #135
microtherion wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The West Coast has seen a huge influx of homeless people Your source shows an INCREASE of homeless people, but not necessarily an INFLUX, i.e. it's not clear whether the newly homeless are in fact "arriving" (from out of state) or have been prior residents who lost their shelter. Anecdotally, I don't think I've ever met somebody who had a PLAN to move to California to be homeless there. But I've met a number of peo…

The LA homeless survey does track where people lived when they became homeless. In 2019, the number who became homeless outside of CA is 20% [1]. AFAIK, they don't release raw data so we can segment by newly homeless, but in 2018, this same figure was 14% [2]. Seattle / King County's survey asks a similar question and it's just 5% [3]. Conservative media up here likes to claim that homeless immigration is a significa…

The Seattle king county survey also found out that 80% of those homeless lived in pioneer square before becoming homeless. Definitely fishy if you know the city.

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#164

Post by nradov »

CydeWeys wrote: post #82

"But there was no “defecation crisis”—a term usually associated with rural India—in the 1930s, even with unemployment at 25%, vagabonds roaming the country, and shantytowns and “Hoovervilles” springing up everywhere." [citation needed] Bodily waste has been a huge problem for shantytowns across all of recorded history. I doubt that Hoovervilles had some unique solution to the problem that has not been replicated sinc…

Hooverville residents were mostly not mentally ill or drug addicts. They probably dug pit latrines.

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#166

Post by masonic »

throebd wrote: post #10

It is a ban of plastic bags from supermarkets. People have some decency, but with ban there is no way to dispose excrements.

Plastic produce bags are still free and are even better suited to human waste than non-sealable open grocery bags.

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#167

Post by Spooky23 »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #111
Spooky23 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a Federal lawsuit and consent decree that forced NYC to house homeless people. It had a lot of negative impact on poor people in general. Mentally ill homeless people skipped the line for subsidized housing and had an outsized impact on crime and quality of life issues in public housing. Recent policies to guarantee housing has made NYC something of a magnet. If you live upstate, you may need to wait a year…

> It had a lot of negative impact on poor people in general. Mentally ill homeless people skipped the line for subsidized housing and had an outsized impact on crime and quality of life issues in public housing. I don't know much about this but there's got to be more to that story. Personally, I'm more than okay with policies that attract some additional homeless people to our city if it means that (1) those people g…

Depends. Short-term homeless are economic tragedies (lost work, divorce, etc).

Long-term homeless usually have significant health and other issues. Stuff like serious mental health issues, chronic alcoholism, drug issues, etc.

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#168

Post by licyeus »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #163
licyeus wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The LA homeless survey does track where people lived when they became homeless. In 2019, the number who became homeless outside of CA is 20% [1]. AFAIK, they don't release raw data so we can segment by newly homeless, but in 2018, this same figure was 14% [2]. Seattle / King County's survey asks a similar question and it's just 5% [3]. Conservative media up here likes to claim that homeless immigration is a significa…

The Seattle king county survey also found out that 80% of those homeless lived in pioneer square before becoming homeless. Definitely fishy if you know the city.

AFAIK, the Seattle / King County survey did not ask which neighborhood or zip code they lived in. The questions are listed on the survey PDF I linked earlier.

Do you have a source? Closest I can find is from 2016, and it's 25% of in-county zip codes equalling Pioneer Square, not 80% of all:

"The records show that more than 8,000 clients [of any homeless/housing services tracked by All Home] listed their last ZIP code as 98104, which covers Pioneer Square and downtown. That’s about 25 percent of all clients who gave King County ZIP codes. Putnam says clients sometimes list ZIP codes for the shelters where they last stayed or the neighborhood where they’d been seeking services."

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/king-coun...

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#169

Post by tomjen3 »

lettergram wrote: post #66

I recall a homeless guy in SF laying in front of the Alameda ferry terminal. He had pooped and was smearing it over the door, ground, and was rolling in it. The other passengers and myself were just watching. I remember watching everyone’s faces and us deciding what to do. This was fairly normal for all of us. The coast guard came off the incoming ferry and basically joined us. It wasn’t their job, eventually we got…

In a different country, some sailor would be tasked with removing him, and would just hose everything away with the firehose (it runs on whatever water the ship sails in, so the only cost is the power to move the water through it).

I am not sure it would be a better solution, but it seems to me that the current status where you can't enforce basic societal rules, like don't roll in shit in public, because the only social sanction, exclusion, can't be applied is simply unsustainable and quite frankly we need to make it possible to arrest people who act this way (and ensure they are arrested).

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#170

Post by tomjen3 »

baby wrote: post #42

Serious question. Where are people supposed to go to the restroom when the is no public restroom around?

What do they do in Germany? Their public toilets are amazing, but not free.

I suspect the answer is that they don't have that many people who have these sorts of issues in the first place, but at the same time more social spending doesn't seem to be the issue, as California spend a fortune on the homeless issue and gets relatively little for it, and the most common length of time to be homeless is one day.

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