We Have Ruined Childhood • Hacker News Board

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#431

Post by ocschwar » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

winchling wrote: post #405

wastedhours wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> be there: work less, hangout more I keep running across this sentiment, and although I don't have kids yet, is one I intend to take to heart. "Quality time" is largely BS - making time for a piano recital is pointless and can barely make up for the time if you miss the fun and general bonding the rest of the time. I remember the times sat eating dinner on the sofa in front the TV having a laugh with my parents more…

Agreed. One suspects the concept of quality time came in with the rising incidence of divorce. Where quality time implies some kind of performance or role, which is stressful, hanging out with one's children is wonderful. I find that the compensations more than make up for the difficulties. I enjoy the company of people who are totally open and forgiving. I get the profound satisfaction of watching them learn. I re-e…

> Agreed. One suspects the concept of quality time came in with the rising incidence of divorce.

I'm old enough to confirm that the etymology of the phrase comes from the divorce generation.

Now my wife uses the phrase as a code for diaper change.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#432

Post by WarDores » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 2:41 PM UTC

nscalf wrote: post #404

dougmwne wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That epidemic is here. After the opiod crisis, overdose is now the leading cause of death for those under 50. Suicide is increasing for all age cohorts, not just teenagers. Deaths from alcohol are increasing. Life expextancy in the US has been declining for 3 years. I actually suspect we'll start to get a handle on these problems in the next few years since we're beginning to collectively wake up to the importance of…

You don't have to wait until people get that old to see an epidemic, we have a mass shooting in a school nearly daily.

It's false ideas like this that lead to the "we need to bubble wrap our kids" mentality.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#433

Post by ryandrake » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

mosselman wrote: post #367

dtwest wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it is US-centric, the post is from a US newspaper. Nobody would comment "This is all pretty German-centric" if the post came from a German newspaper. Maybe I don't understand your point. That aside, I completely agree with your comment. Public spaces and well designed cities that allow for those clusters are very important to kids. For whatever it's worth though, I don't think things were that much better i…

> Of course it is US-centric, the post is from a US newspaper. What is your point? Whether this is a US-centric or global issue seems like valuable information for the discussion. If it really is a US-centric problem, the solution, for the US, might be to look outward at other countries. If it were a global issue, we'd all have to look into our past to find a solution. It is important to know the scale of the problem…

> If it really is a US-centric problem, the solution, for the US, might be to look outward at other countries.

Given the state of other US-specific problems like our dysfunctional healthcare system and mass-shootings, I think it’s pretty clear the US is rarely interested in learning from outside its borders.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#434

Post by taurath » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 2:48 PM UTC

scroy wrote: post #363

taurath wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things like... community gathering that people will actually use (see: night markets anywhere in Asia), banning of outdoor billboards, health care gauranteed whether you’re working a good job, a bad job, or taking a break. Mandatory vacation leave. Overtime pay for even salaried workers. Plenty of things that could say that we as a society mean to do more than make the rich richer for a .1% chance to become the rich.

Outdoor billboards...?

Ads. Ads are a constant drumbeat saying whatever you have isn't "enough". That you should be striving for something better, or worse, that what you have now is crap. They drive a lot of the hurriedness in society. They drive companies to get your attention at all costs - they make your social network a cesspool of extreme politics, not because people wouldn't post them normally, but because ad money incentivizes the networks to promote them. They make your local news only care about grabbing your attention. Go somewhere without billboards and notice how much more peaceful it is. One of the properties of the nicest vacation spots especially where you're supposed to relax is that there are no billboards.

True, a lot of the economy wouldn't work without some sort of advertising, but I've felt that they almost always incentivize people to act against their own interests, and companies to stop treating the end users as a customer.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#435

Post by nostalgk » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 2:50 PM UTC

microcolonel wrote: post #379

dmje wrote: post #293

You guys in the States have it bad. I hear terrible stories about the fear that now surrounds any kind of freedom for kids. Over here in the UK we’re a bit better, but the “give them exams ALL the time” and schools being on their knees, financially, are all too familiar. For me, this journey with my kids has been about a massive slew of things, among the most important: - extending their childhood where possible: enc…

> You guys in the States have it bad. I hear terrible stories about the fear that now surrounds any kind of freedom for kids. Over here in the UK we’re a bit better, but the “give them exams ALL the time” and schools being on their knees, financially, are all too familiar Of course, this is all because of lies and locked-in unintended consequences. The schools have no practical reason to be on their knees financially…

You sound like you might have some solid points in here. Next time try adding a few citations, and less rants about your perception of young adult women.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#436

Post by taurath » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 2:53 PM UTC

agent008t wrote: post #368

taurath wrote: post #55

I mean. I’m not okay either. I work to try to reduce my screen time as much as I can but when it’s part of the job and also an always ready hit of dissociative dopamine in my pocket it creates an awful feedback loop that I’m not equipped to handle. At work as a programmer, you’re “supposed” to spend some free time doing projects and have “hobby development”, so you can reach the next career echelon. Even not in a pro…

Out of interest - what is stopping you from moving to one of these other countries?

At the moment a desire to find something sustainable here, where most of my relationships are. I think about it all the time, and have ran budgets, and have vacations with the intent of "feeling like I live" there. I know there'll be a lot of downsides that I can't know about, but I try to talk to expats and migrants to get their take on things.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#437

Post by supernova87a » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 2:59 PM UTC

Well, I hate to put it so harshly, but maybe parents and kids in the US are realizing that life isn't all play and fun, and that's how the rest of the world has to live each day. And they'd better keep up.

This is what happens when the economic / political barriers to competition are pulled out, and you find out that the rest of the world is ready to outcompete your kids, and the cushion you had being the largest, fastest growing, most resourceful country, no longer holds as much as it did in the past.

Sometimes life makes you work hard. And if you give in too much to nostalgia and think that kids' lives ought to be lived in a blissful world free of stress, you're going to be eaten alive by kids whose parents (and who themselves) want better for themselves and are willing to sacrifice a little play time in exchange.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#438

Post by kwhitefoot » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 3:05 PM UTC

ourlordcaffeine wrote: post #386

bcrosby95 wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're missing is many people in modern society have decided that kids are solely the responsibility of their parents and no one should ever suffer any inconvenience or displeasure as a result of them. However slight it might be. This means anytime your kid decides to act out in any way in public, including occasionally make a sound above speaking level, you are disrupting other people's experiences and get dirt…

This is also a very US centric thing. In mainland Europe, there is not nearly as much animosity towards children.

But children here are generally expected to behave well when in company or public. At least they are where I live in Norway. Children here are generally self reliant but also quiet and well behaved so one rarely sees animosity to children, partly I suspect because the trigger rarely happens.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#439

Post by jefurii » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 3:09 PM UTC

wastedhours wrote: post #349

dmje wrote: post #293

You guys in the States have it bad. I hear terrible stories about the fear that now surrounds any kind of freedom for kids. Over here in the UK we’re a bit better, but the “give them exams ALL the time” and schools being on their knees, financially, are all too familiar. For me, this journey with my kids has been about a massive slew of things, among the most important: - extending their childhood where possible: enc…

> be there: work less, hangout more I keep running across this sentiment, and although I don't have kids yet, is one I intend to take to heart. "Quality time" is largely BS - making time for a piano recital is pointless and can barely make up for the time if you miss the fun and general bonding the rest of the time. I remember the times sat eating dinner on the sofa in front the TV having a laugh with my parents more…

If "quality time" means having actual conversations, some of the best quality time I have with my son is driving to/from school or lessons and playing co-op video games.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#440

Post by Apofis » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 3:10 PM UTC

Grzegrzolka wrote: post #295

parasubvert wrote: post #286

It’s a strange article from an outside-US perspective. My 2.5 year old in daycare has lots of play time (at least 3 hours a day), plus at an hour at home in the morning and evening. Usually about 1 hour is on the iPad (Toca Blocks is her free play game), the rest with books, blocks, in the garden with flowers, on her tricycle... The 9 year old’s “before and after school” program is all about free play time, plus two…

USA is just slowly rotting away. From what I read here about how modern life in US looks like I seriously suspect that there will be some kind of massive epidemic mind deseases outburst there in 15-30 years.

It's already happening.