We Have Ruined Childhood • Hacker News Board

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#411

Post by blaser-waffle » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:44 PM UTC

microcolonel wrote: post #379

dmje wrote: post #293

You guys in the States have it bad. I hear terrible stories about the fear that now surrounds any kind of freedom for kids. Over here in the UK we’re a bit better, but the “give them exams ALL the time” and schools being on their knees, financially, are all too familiar. For me, this journey with my kids has been about a massive slew of things, among the most important: - extending their childhood where possible: enc…

> You guys in the States have it bad. I hear terrible stories about the fear that now surrounds any kind of freedom for kids. Over here in the UK we’re a bit better, but the “give them exams ALL the time” and schools being on their knees, financially, are all too familiar Of course, this is all because of lies and locked-in unintended consequences. The schools have no practical reason to be on their knees financially…

This reads like a Koch sponsored hit-list for pushing privatized schools. "Needs more standards!" "Can't fire teachers because teachers unions are literally the devil!" "Social Justice Warriors are ruining everything!"

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#412

Post by Smithalicious » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:47 PM UTC

parasubvert wrote: post #282

Rotdhizon wrote: post #83

Seems like society is constantly pushing to remove all the ways in which kids used to live. Can't just wonder around and play on the sidewalks or the streets anymore with your friends, someone will call the police on you. Can't hang out in the woods, as those have mostly been torn down to make way for new neighborhoods, and the woods that do remain are typically private property. Unless you are lucky enough to live i…

This is all pretty US-centric. Kids are allowed a fair amount of freedom in Canada and Europe, where I still see a lot of kids around malls, or parks, playing basketball in courts (which still happens in NYC), or wooded areas. Sure, more are on their phones etc. But it’s really not that different from the 90s IMO, in many locations. The biggest change is there aren’t so many clusters of “neighbourhood kids” as there…

I see this sentiment (it's not like this in Europe) all the time, yet in NL where I live it definitely seems to be about the same as the US.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#413

Post by Scoutmaster » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:47 PM UTC

Scoutmaster wrote: post #88

roasm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes, my kids will say they're bored. My response to them is that my job is not to entertain them. They totally get it, though sometimes they're still bored...

And that's okay. You're job isn't to be their friend either. A parent's job is to give their kids opportunity to learn and grow. You can't always force it on them, and they won't always be interested. You can give them them the opportunity to do something that will help them grow (learn, build character, etc) or they can be bored, but if they choose to be bored, they need to be told that they have options, and they a…

And the opportunities you give them don't always have to be something that costs you time or money, sometimes it's just giving them the opportunity to go outside and play.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#414

Post by beauzero » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

Upvoter33 wrote: post #388

maxheadroom wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...and the woods that do remain are typically private property. I've heard that in the states you can own a piece of property but have "no right" to get to it, as it's surrounded by other pieces of private property and, so, you're at the whims of those properties' owners. Is this true? In Sweden, we have the concept of 'Allemansrätten'[0]; which is to say that 'private property' (in the absolute sense) doesn't exis…

"and the woods that do remain are typically private property" This is not really true, there are thousands of forests and lands that are public spaces. Whatever the problem is, it's not this.

Depends on which coast you live. West coast, central US lot's of government land (BLM, Forest Service, National Parks, etc.). The east coast, not so much. Most of it is private. It was a shock to me when I moved from Montana to Georgia.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#415

Post by eeZah7Ux » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

geodel wrote: post #396

Though not strictly correct, I feel US rule is kids can't be free until they have their own car. And once they have that, parents must immediately lose their supervision privilege. Aren't there enough stories of outrage that parents get to see their kids' college transcripts without explicit permission.

> parents get to see their kids' college transcripts

...what?!

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#416

Post by Vaslo » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

Why not let kids do what they want to do instead of jamming the lifestyle we want them to have down their throat? I grew up in a middle of the middle class neighborhood where both parents worked and no one had time to take their kids to these events. Aside from the agreed importance of school, most kids did at most 1-2 things. I played guitar/bass so I took lessons once a week and I also played around on a computer. Some played Football and Baseball, some rode skateboards and BMX bikes. Aside from those who unfortunately got into drugs, all are fine adults doing everything career from Medicine to Concrete. Kids wandered our neighborhood, played all day in the woods, rode bikes down busy streets at age 10 to go the music store. What's happened to us?

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#417

Post by ryeights » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #161

I've thought about this a decent amount and I just can't agree that unsupervised outdoor wandering is a good thing before maybe middle school. Kids are stupid and even the smart ones get peer pressured into doing stupid things that can injure or kill them. Like when I crushed my wrist riding a bike downhill on a paved road in 2nd or 1st grade. Those kids apparently rode on roads all the time which looking back seems…

> Kids are stupid and even the smart ones get peer pressured into doing stupid things that can injure or kill them.

This happens to adults too (especially sheltered ones). It’s a part of life. Wouldn’t you say it’s important for kids to make those kinds of mistakes and learn some important lessons about the real world while the consequences are still relatively small?

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#418

Post by cwal37 » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

winchling wrote: post #405

wastedhours wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> be there: work less, hangout more I keep running across this sentiment, and although I don't have kids yet, is one I intend to take to heart. "Quality time" is largely BS - making time for a piano recital is pointless and can barely make up for the time if you miss the fun and general bonding the rest of the time. I remember the times sat eating dinner on the sofa in front the TV having a laugh with my parents more…

Agreed. One suspects the concept of quality time came in with the rising incidence of divorce. Where quality time implies some kind of performance or role, which is stressful, hanging out with one's children is wonderful. I find that the compensations more than make up for the difficulties. I enjoy the company of people who are totally open and forgiving. I get the profound satisfaction of watching them learn. I re-e…

Divorce rates in the US have been declining for decades. Unless you're referring to a different area or timeframe?

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#419

Post by vibrio » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 2:12 PM UTC

parasubvert wrote: post #282

Rotdhizon wrote: post #83

Seems like society is constantly pushing to remove all the ways in which kids used to live. Can't just wonder around and play on the sidewalks or the streets anymore with your friends, someone will call the police on you. Can't hang out in the woods, as those have mostly been torn down to make way for new neighborhoods, and the woods that do remain are typically private property. Unless you are lucky enough to live i…

This is all pretty US-centric. Kids are allowed a fair amount of freedom in Canada and Europe, where I still see a lot of kids around malls, or parks, playing basketball in courts (which still happens in NYC), or wooded areas. Sure, more are on their phones etc. But it’s really not that different from the 90s IMO, in many locations. The biggest change is there aren’t so many clusters of “neighbourhood kids” as there…

"This is all pretty US-centric."

Is it US-Centric or urban centric? My guess is most of this board falls on the Urban side (Me included). I am unable to apply many of my valuable unstructured rural experiences as a youth to how I want to raise a child in a city. I thing I'd have the same challenge with Rome, Dallas, Barcelona, or most other urban centers.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#420

Post by dragonsh » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

shioyama wrote: post #326

dragonsh wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have enough ties to USA and looking at the kids of majority of my childhood friends I can say for sure that they are similar or better off than an average Asian kids who spend majority of time not playing outside but immersed in school homework or extra tutoring activities. The pressure in Asia builds even before pre-school where toddlers have lessons to attend, to get into a decent pre-school. Anecdotal evidence t…

Sorry, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I live in Japan, so I'm speaking from direct daily experience with a local school system (not international school). But I completely disagree with your statements about "Asia", as if all countries are the same. Let's at least be specific about which countries you're talking about, and what direct experience you have with those countries. I make no claims beyond my local c…

Yes I agree to disagree. Canada is North America and is not the same as you described.

Also you must be aware that USA laws are quite complex with different state and federal laws. Moreover it's a constantly evolving common law jurisdiction. So the rules related to parenting have a clear reason for existence and might change in future. It does not make the kids worse off than other countries as each has their own problems.

Also in Asia I am talking about cities mentioned in my earlier post. Country or region is just too broad a brush to stereotype, even in Japan Sapporo is very different from Tokyo.