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Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

bloomberg.com

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Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#51

Post by muro »

acd wrote: post #32
jansan wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has traditionally been a station wagon country. Although SUVs are everywhere now, you still see more station wagons. As I see it, SUVs are used as a status symbol and they have the advantage of an elevated driving position. Station wagons are generally used by people who "do stuff", who have to transport things or drive long distances. It it the car of the practical thinkers. Station wagons are also driven by…

One could make a mix between station wagon and suv. All it requires is height adjustable dampers. Elevation is a classic status symbol think castle locations. Upper class started driving elevated cars SUVs and middle class want to move up in status.

You get a much better view from an elevated position, it feels safer than in a lower car.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#52

Post by alexkiritz »

threeseed wrote: post #7

Terrible article: 1) It's only about the US. 2) Tesla's big seller is the Model 3 which isn't a competitor for the Audi e-tron and I-Pace. And given the size difference probably isn't a competitor for the Model X either. 3) No one is claiming to be a Tesla killer since no one really has direct 3, X, S, Y competitors. The existing car companies are all off doing their own thing e.g. VW ID.3 (hatchback), Hyundai Kona (…

Do you seriously think most people who buy larger cars now actually need them? Of course not.

People do cross comparisons and generally prefer the Model 3 for a variety of reasons. And it's cheaper.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#53

Post by varjag »

threeseed wrote: post #14
varjag wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are aimed at the same crowd who buy models X&S, and they didn't have much a dent yet here in Norway as well.

And Tesla is definitely still beating them. But it's more than a little disingenuous to compare cars from different segments.

I'm not sure if we can talk about segments here. The Audi for example aims squarely for the same premium SUV owners. That they didn't make them larger I suspect is the result of inferior technology. With increased mass and air drag the already modest range would have become laughable.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#54

Post by ahartmetz »

acd wrote: post #32
jansan wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has traditionally been a station wagon country. Although SUVs are everywhere now, you still see more station wagons. As I see it, SUVs are used as a status symbol and they have the advantage of an elevated driving position. Station wagons are generally used by people who "do stuff", who have to transport things or drive long distances. It it the car of the practical thinkers. Station wagons are also driven by…

One could make a mix between station wagon and suv. All it requires is height adjustable dampers. Elevation is a classic status symbol think castle locations. Upper class started driving elevated cars SUVs and middle class want to move up in status.

IMO SUVs are something that people of low status consider high status. They are primitive and brutal looking vehicles with pretty awful properties as driving machines: high weight, high drag, high center of gravity (which also forces comfort / safety compromises), much less room than station wagons. You can get cars that look and drive much nicer for the same money.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#55

Post by alexkiritz »

nimbius wrote: post #35
kenhwang wrote: post #25

That's an interesting interpretation of the data. To me, it looks like Model S/X sales have noticeably dropped since the introduction of the Jaguar and Audi. I don't think there will be a singular Tesla killer, but rather, Tesla is increasingly going to be attacked by all sides: Hyundai/Nissan/GM on the mass market side, Jaguar/Audi/Mercedes/BMW on the luxury side, and Porsche on the ultra luxury high end. The Model…

Another aspect is repair. Speaking as someone who works full time as an engine mechanic, sourcing parts or even being allowed to do repair work for a Tesla is a tedious process. Everything comes from one factory with no distribution network, so a door panel repair can take months to fix . In contrast, I can get nearly any part for an Audi delivered to the shop in 2 days and the digital books for service interval and…

That's an issue Tesla has, but I don't think that would at all explain a drop in Model 3 sales.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#56

Post by martin_bech »

fgonzag wrote: post #29
pandapower2 wrote: post #2

Feels like anyone going head to head with Tesla is in for a hard time. It must be very hard to compete with the cachet of Tesla and the speed with which they improve their vehicles.

the porsche taycan seems like the ideal electric car honestly. If the price is not that ridiculous it'll probably be my first electric vehicle.

I myself was waiting for the Taycan, its looks stunning, and is very impressive, but on pure specs, its actually the same size as a Model 3 Performance, and a little slower... So I just ordered a Model 3 Performance. I currently drive a Model S.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#57

Post by taneq »

kenhwang wrote: post #37
radium3d wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the model 3 is cannibalizing s and x sales instead? It is much more modern and nearly identical in speed and has ample storage and comfort. The s is better if you need more space and longer range, x if storage is your need. I imagine s and x are a hard sell with the steering wheel UX being much more complex and confusing plus the similarities compared with the model 3 for a much higher price tag.

What happened with the Model 3 in 2019 that would cause the drop off in 2019 sales? If anything, the Model 3 would've impacted sales from 2017-onward when it was introduced.

They only started delivering Model 3s in any significant numbers around the end of 2018.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#58

Post by bsder »

jansan wrote: post #26
King-Aaron wrote: post #13

I wish consumers would take a liking to station wagons again. SUV's are terrible.

Germany has traditionally been a station wagon country. Although SUVs are everywhere now, you still see more station wagons. As I see it, SUVs are used as a status symbol and they have the advantage of an elevated driving position. Station wagons are generally used by people who "do stuff", who have to transport things or drive long distances. It it the car of the practical thinkers. Station wagons are also driven by…

> the advantage of an elevated driving position

One of the big car makers actually had a full psychological workup on different SUV driver cohorts, and small females make up a disproportionate cohort for exactly this reason.

The perception is that the higher vantage makes things safer in spite of the reality that the SUV is less safe because it takes more physical strength to actually handle the car in emergency situations.

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#59

Post by reitzensteinm »

varjag wrote: post #9
threeseed wrote: post #7

Terrible article: 1) It's only about the US. 2) Tesla's big seller is the Model 3 which isn't a competitor for the Audi e-tron and I-Pace. And given the size difference probably isn't a competitor for the Model X either. 3) No one is claiming to be a Tesla killer since no one really has direct 3, X, S, Y competitors. The existing car companies are all off doing their own thing e.g. VW ID.3 (hatchback), Hyundai Kona (…

They are aimed at the same crowd who buy models X&S, and they didn't have much a dent yet here in Norway as well.

The Model 3 is cleaning up in Norway, but the new contenders are absolutely "making a dent" with respect to S&X sales. Both the e-tron and I Pace are individually outselling S&X combined to date in 2019.

This is likely due to pent up demand, but it does show that Tesla's absolute domination of the US market hasn't played out in Europe.

If you're interested in widespread EV adoption, this is probably ideal. It's concerning to me that Tesla may have so much mind share that even genuine competitors once they arrive will struggle to sell enough to be profitable.

In which case, the steady state will be legacy auto makers doing the bare minimum as required under emissions legislation. In the EU that's probably ok, but not in the US.

Norway 2019 sales for reference:

Model 3: 10976 VW Golf: 6533 Leaf: 5441 BMW i3: 3671 E-Tron: 3114 I-Pace: 2372 IONIQ: 2168 Zoe: 1775 Model X: 1344 Model S: 969

Re: Jaguar and Audi SUVs Fail to Dent Tesla’s Electric-Car Dominance

#60

Post by tyfon »

threeseed wrote: post #7

Terrible article: 1) It's only about the US. 2) Tesla's big seller is the Model 3 which isn't a competitor for the Audi e-tron and I-Pace. And given the size difference probably isn't a competitor for the Model X either. 3) No one is claiming to be a Tesla killer since no one really has direct 3, X, S, Y competitors. The existing car companies are all off doing their own thing e.g. VW ID.3 (hatchback), Hyundai Kona (…

i-pace is actually more comparable to model 3 than model S and X. It has about the same power and internal space, model x is _much_ bigger.
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