Live data from Hacker News

We Have Ruined Childhood

nytimes.com

111–120 of 505 posts

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to whites in that time period, sure. The raising of kids seems to me to be a multifaceted issue. One interesting example: most would agree that having two parents in a household is better for raising kids. In the early 20th century, despite racism and segregation, black divorce rates and birth outside of wedlock was much lower than it is for blacks today. Of course, those rates have gone up for all races ove…

Yes, but the point is that the era we tend to romanticize the most with 'free range parenting' tended to be something exclusive to white and/or affluent parents. Black children didn't really have that luxury at the time considering the systemic racism they encountered every step of the way. As a poor white kid when I grew up my parents didn't have the luxury to let me do my own thing because they were often out fishi…

I see your point and concur. I do wonder though - in many ways diversity of cultures, nationalities, and races has enriched America and provided many things that other countries simply don't have - does this same diversity also make mixed communities less trusting resulting in less 'free range parenting'?

In other words, whites in that era who practiced 'free range parenting' presumably lived in mostly white communities. If the communities were more mixed at the time, would 'free range parenting' have been as common, even if the affluence and social status of whites was the same?

Another question - what were the parenting techniques like from other races at the time in America? I'm thinking Chinese/Japanese immigrants, Hispanics, Jews, etc. Were well-to-do whites the only ones who largely practiced this style of parenting or were there others?

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#112

Well, if you report 24x7 hate and danger, scare the crap out of people, and report that there is danger behind every tree, then yes, childhoods are ruined. Things are getting safer and the only way you would know it is go look at the CDC stats. Kids need time with their friends away from parents. I'm so glad I was able to grow up in the (sadly last) "be home for dinner, be back by dark" generation.

> Kids need time with their friends away from parents. I'm so glad I was able to grow up in the (sadly last) "be home for dinner, be back by dark" generation. Completely agree with your comment, but "sadly last" here is not accurate unless you're talking about North America and maybe Europe. I live in Japan and it's quite normal, even in a big city like Tokyo, to let kids play on their own until it gets dark. I feel…

It's a pure creation of the media, which has spent the better part of 50 years terrifying parents with panic after panic. The reality is that crime is much lower today and yet we are more afraid of crime than ever.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#113
post #79

> I'm so glad I was able to grow up in the (sadly last) "be home for dinner, be back by dark" generation. Hey I'm old too. We played Lawn Jarts--the ones with the points on them. We rode in cars without seatbelts. We bike rode without helmets. Played tackle football without equipment on the frozen ground. We played Hardball at 6. And we Fought with each other. When I was 7 some older kid took my ball; my mom said "Yo…

Your first paragraph made me laugh. I'm that old too. We also regularly rode in the bed of pickup trucks, especially coming home from a baseball game.

Playground equipment today is very different. No merry-go-round, see-saws, monkey bars, etc. Even the swing sets are not always there.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#114
post #49

Who is We? Actually I think I get it - we had kids in NYC too. But we left and I find the stories in the article to be rather alien now. Kids running free from house to house and playing on their own. Is that really so rare outside of some of the big cities?

Not from my experience. The kids on my block played all summer long on bikes, with hoses, and at the nearby park. I'm guessing from 5 or 6 different houses on the street, all different ages. Just kids being summer kids.

Same story when I visited family in Colorado. Just kids playing outside like kids. Coming over unsupervised to play with the kids.

Seems like I might not live in the areas where the sky is falling, but I see kids reading outside, playing outside, and generally being away from their parents all the time in my own neighborhood

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#115
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kids need time with their friends away from parents. I'm so glad I was able to grow up in the (sadly last) "be home for dinner, be back by dark" generation. Completely agree with your comment, but "sadly last" here is not accurate unless you're talking about North America and maybe Europe. I live in Japan and it's quite normal, even in a big city like Tokyo, to let kids play on their own until it gets dark. I feel…

Kids in Japan lead carefree "be home by dark" lives up until late middle school and high school, when they start studying 4+hrs/day and sleeping <5hrs/night to prep for standardized tests. I don't think Japan is a horrific dystopia for teens but it's hardly the "let kids be kids" culture that America of yesteryear (apparently) was.

Helping raise a teenager in Japan, it is pretty close to a dystopia. The idea that students could have free time seems to be frightening to the whole education system.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#116
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kids need time with their friends away from parents. I'm so glad I was able to grow up in the (sadly last) "be home for dinner, be back by dark" generation. Completely agree with your comment, but "sadly last" here is not accurate unless you're talking about North America and maybe Europe. I live in Japan and it's quite normal, even in a big city like Tokyo, to let kids play on their own until it gets dark. I feel…

Kids in Japan lead carefree "be home by dark" lives up until late middle school and high school, when they start studying 4+hrs/day and sleeping <5hrs/night to prep for standardized tests. I don't think Japan is a horrific dystopia for teens but it's hardly the "let kids be kids" culture that America of yesteryear (apparently) was.

It's easy to get led into thinking this is ubiquitous, but it really isn't. Life gets difficult for school children around year 3 min middle school (about grade 9). The long and the short of it is that if you want to get a really top job, then you need to come from a top university, which means that you usually need to come from a top highschool, which means that you must get a good mark on your high school entrance example.

Lately it's gotten even a bit more difficult because you are allowed to apply for only 1 public high school and one private high school (unlike the UK, "public" and "private" refers to what you would normally think -- public is publicly funded and private is privately funded). You can always pay your way into a top school if you have enough money, but generally if you want to get in you need a good result on your entrance exam.

Here's the thing most people don't understand: most students don't care. And by most, I mean about 80%. Only 1/4 of high schools are high performing high schools where students are expected to go on to university. Even with that, most students will prefer to go to a high school that is close to them or where their friends are going. Only a few students choose (or are pushed by their parents) to go to the really top schools.

Even with low level schools, you can still make it to a respectable university. The school I taught in is one of the lowest public schools in the prefecture (one year, due to lack of enrollment, we accepted students who scored 0 on the entrance exam! Seriously, you have to be trying to get zero!) However, we usually sent 4 or 5 students to Nagoya university, which is a decent university. Several of my students when to Shizuoka university too -- which is not a great university, but definitely good enough to get a good job in Shizuoka prefecture.

At low level school, students do not study. I mean, a few study because they like studying, but never once did my students do their homework! Students are carefree, happy and energetic. Compared to the highschools I went to in Canada (I moved around a bit), it is absolutely night and day. It's like comparing prison to a holiday camp.

At high level schools, it's really, really hard work and students stay late to study every day (usually coming home around 8 pm). However, the vast majority of the students like studying! And even if you somehow get pushed into a top level school, every school has a kind of "escape hatch" where you basically decide "academics are not for me -- I'm going to become a factory worker".

This is not to say that there isn't pressure to succeed, but the reputation Japanese schools have is completely undeserved.

And to get to the normal argument: what about suicide rates. We can compare suicide rates by age group in Japan [1] and the US [2]. For Japan under 24 (2014) the number is 1814 (0.0000143 per capita) and for the US (2016) it is 6159 (0.0000190). In other words the US youth suicide rate is about 25% higher than Japan's (Why does Japan have a reputation for high suicide rate? Because older people commit suicide -- it is very rare for young people to do so).

[1] (pdf) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c...

[2] (scroll down to table) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#117

Well, if you report 24x7 hate and danger, scare the crap out of people, and report that there is danger behind every tree, then yes, childhoods are ruined. Things are getting safer and the only way you would know it is go look at the CDC stats. Kids need time with their friends away from parents. I'm so glad I was able to grow up in the (sadly last) "be home for dinner, be back by dark" generation.

See, I like the point you are making, but how do we know that overprotection was not a cause of the increased safety?

The numbers quoted in this article look ridiculously high to me: https://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-children-america-unsolved-...

But even at a tenth of that, making your kids harder to abduct may be the main driving factor in lowering kids abductions.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#118
post #28

I have three school age kids and I'd put the difficulties of modern parenting into two bins: 1. Increasingly, both parents work full time and don't/can't rely on family for child care. The "and" is critical here, because in the past you might have had a single parent or dual income parents, but also had grandmothers and aunties as support. An increasingly mobile workforce, and smaller families mean that familial supp…

What would you say your typical response is to 2.a.? I'm anticipating this a bit when I do eventually have kids. Also, please elaborate on the insane competitiveness. This entire subject fascinates me (and others?) greatly, as I really want to have the best grasp I can of what I'm in for.

It's been a process.

At first it was: "oh, thanks for the concern but she/he's fine"

Then it was: "What exactly are you afraid of, this is the safest time in history"

Then it evolved to: "Why don't you mind your own business"

Finally, I just moved to an area where people aren't like that, aka a rural/farm/country area.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#119
Fear ruins everything. As adults, we fear failure, so we try to prevent our kids from experiencing it. As adults, we fear not winning, so we re-invent games so there are no winners. Everyone wins! (except everyone actually loses). We fear lawsuits, so we don't let kids play on our property, and we don't let them skateboard, and we don't let them do things unless its an organized activity with licensed/bonded/insured supervision.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#120

Well, if you report 24x7 hate and danger, scare the crap out of people, and report that there is danger behind every tree, then yes, childhoods are ruined. Things are getting safer and the only way you would know it is go look at the CDC stats. Kids need time with their friends away from parents. I'm so glad I was able to grow up in the (sadly last) "be home for dinner, be back by dark" generation.

>> I'm so glad I was able to grow up in the (sadly last) "be home for dinner, be back by dark" generation. My grandfather collected bells - the ones they had in the old schoolhouses 100 years ago (he'd get them when the schools closed). I grew up in the suburbs but we had a steel bell about 1m diameter on our front porch. For grins mom would ring it occasionally at dinner time. You could hear it 3 streets over. She d…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN