We Have Ruined Childhood • Hacker News Board

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#71

Post by freetime2 » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:09 AM UTC

shioyama wrote: post #38

protomyth wrote: post #5

Well, if you report 24x7 hate and danger, scare the crap out of people, and report that there is danger behind every tree, then yes, childhoods are ruined. Things are getting safer and the only way you would know it is go look at the CDC stats. Kids need time with their friends away from parents. I'm so glad I was able to grow up in the (sadly last) "be home for dinner, be back by dark" generation.

> Kids need time with their friends away from parents. I'm so glad I was able to grow up in the (sadly last) "be home for dinner, be back by dark" generation. Completely agree with your comment, but "sadly last" here is not accurate unless you're talking about North America and maybe Europe. I live in Japan and it's quite normal, even in a big city like Tokyo, to let kids play on their own until it gets dark. I feel…

Also in Japan, and we feel comfortable letting our 5 year old roam around the neighborhood on his own. And when he starts 1st grade he will walk to school with his friends.

The only thing that really scares me here are cars. People tend to drive a little too fast in residential areas IMO. Especially delivery trucks... although at least you can hear them coming from far away.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#72

Post by rbritton » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:10 AM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #29

JKCalhoun wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet there was "danger, scare the crap out of people" then too. Don't take candy from a stranger. Razor blades in apples… Unless it's a difference in degree, that alone is not what has changed. To be sure we seem to be a more fearful society then we were then.

"Unless it's a difference in degree" Let your kids play outside by themselves or walk to school, and get reported to Child Protective Services. It is very much a different world these days.

Utah actually passed something to mitigate against that kind of response last year. https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/01/24/utah-lawmakers-pass-b...

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#73

Post by shioyama » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:11 AM UTC

freetime2 wrote: post #71

shioyama wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kids need time with their friends away from parents. I'm so glad I was able to grow up in the (sadly last) "be home for dinner, be back by dark" generation. Completely agree with your comment, but "sadly last" here is not accurate unless you're talking about North America and maybe Europe. I live in Japan and it's quite normal, even in a big city like Tokyo, to let kids play on their own until it gets dark. I feel…

Also in Japan, and we feel comfortable letting our 5 year old roam around the neighborhood on his own. And when he starts 1st grade he will walk to school with his friends. The only thing that really scares me here are cars. People tend to drive a little too fast in residential areas IMO. Especially delivery trucks... although at least you can hear them coming from far away.

Completely agree, cars are the main thing that worry me as well (in the city).

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#74

Post by weiming » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:11 AM UTC

roasm wrote: post #65

mbrumlow wrote: post #3

I have a child. I love him very much. I can not fathom why any parents would not have free time as priority. Free time is amazing. Here is why. - I get a break. - My child gets to learn how to learn on his own. - My child builds independence. - My child learns to manage his time on his own. I see this playing out in the work force too. Far too many people I have worked with that are younger need to be told exactly wh…

Sometimes, my kids will say they're bored. My response to them is that my job is not to entertain them. They totally get it, though sometimes they're still bored...

Why not plan an activity or build something together?

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#75

Post by spodek » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:11 AM UTC

I recommend to any parent Peter Gray's column in Psychology Today, Freedom to Learn https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn

and his book Freed to Learn https://www.amazon.com/Free-Learn-Unleashing-Instinct-Self-R....

He writes about how kids learn on their own if we don't straightjacket them too much and how we're straightjacketing them.

Also Lenore Skenazy's Let Grow: https://letgrow.org, a program to help restore childhood. She was called the worst mom in America after she wrote how she let her 9-year-old take the subway home, embraced the title, and started the free range kid movement.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#76

Post by mandelbrotwurst » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:11 AM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #59

mandelbrotwurst wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know what the composition of the other 98% looks like? i.e. accidental firings at home, murders, suicides, etc?

The CDC does an amazing job of gather stats on what kills people in the USA. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm and those statistics have a section on child mortality.

Thanks!

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#77

Post by germinalphrase » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:12 AM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #29

JKCalhoun wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet there was "danger, scare the crap out of people" then too. Don't take candy from a stranger. Razor blades in apples… Unless it's a difference in degree, that alone is not what has changed. To be sure we seem to be a more fearful society then we were then.

"Unless it's a difference in degree" Let your kids play outside by themselves or walk to school, and get reported to Child Protective Services. It is very much a different world these days.

Look - I'm sure you can find some outlier news article about this happening, but as someone who actually has professional contact with CPS once in a while, this is - in my opinion - wildly hyperbolic. The social workers I know who work for CPS have excessive work loads of really intense circumstances (like, children being preyed upon, beaten, chained to radiators...). They're not doing parent interviews because someone let their 10-year-old walk to the park.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#78

Post by seattle_spring » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:12 AM UTC

shioyama wrote: post #66

fzeroracer wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, I don't think Japan is exactly a good model to bring up here. Kids are independent with their free time, but most of their free time is taken up having to study seven days a week while dealing with absent parents having to work long hours and a grueling school system that is part of the reason why Japan has such a high suicide rate among youths. Which I think is more of a problem than helicopter parenting…

> Which I think is more of a problem than helicopter parenting in America Sorry, as a parent in Japan, I beg to disagree. The system here has lots of problems, don't get me wrong - and I really don't like the "juku" (cram-school) model at all. But particularly at younger ages (which in many ways are the most important ones), there is still that fundamental freedom to be on your own with your friends. Kids age as youn…

> Kids age as young as 5 are often out on their own with their friends outside, or walking to school, etc. That's something you would be arrested for in the U.S.

Do you mean "until age 5"? All of the kids I knew from that area of the world, as young as elementary school, spent every second either studying for school or practicing piano/violin.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#79

Post by RaceWon » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:12 AM UTC

> I'm so glad I was able to grow up in the (sadly last) "be home for dinner, be back by dark" generation.

Hey I'm old too. We played Lawn Jarts--the ones with the points on them. We rode in cars without seatbelts. We bike rode without helmets. Played tackle football without equipment on the frozen ground. We played Hardball at 6. And we Fought with each other.

When I was 7 some older kid took my ball; my mom said "You gotta learn to fight your own battles", that was my first black eye, and it hurt like hell. My dad did go to his house to speak with his dad, since the kid was about 13 years old. But that lesson about standing up for yourself was the most invaluable lesson I ever received.. I grew up in the World of Men where at times might does right, and tbh it still sorta does.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#80

Post by Waterluvian » Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 1:12 AM UTC

My wife and I have 2.5 and 0.7 year olds. Because of remote work, I have the luxury of living basically anywhere. My wife and I made the move from a 300k city to a 40k city about 45 minutes away.

There's many reasons we did. Chiefly, it's far far cheaper. But also, it's calmer and quieter and just a nicer way to live. What we didn't expect to see, which we are absolutely delighted about, is how different childhood seems to get lived in a much smaller city. There have been roving bands of children on bikes all summer getting into who knows what kind of awesome mischief.

We go on completely random drives 3 or 4 times a week, just wandering the city to get to know it better (and get the youngest to nap) and we see kids and young teens all over the place without parents.

Anecdotally of course, but I wonder if smaller cities/towns lend themselves to a far more trusting, free, safe environment to grow up. When I picture letting my boys, when older, go out on their own, I'm thinking about the difference between here and where I used to live. The scariest street has 4 lanes total and is a 50km/h. There's no rapid transit to smoosh them. There's a wonderful central park just one traffic light away. Literally everything in the city is a bike ride away.