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Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure

npr.org

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Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure

#41

Post by throwaway122379 »

ealexhudson wrote: post #33
Simulacra wrote: post #7

If true, would this not point towards avoiding such unions in the future?

No, it just points to a. Having a reasonable exit process (the default of two years makes no sense) and b. The public having the patience to understand 40+ years of cooperation can't be rolled back in a matter of months.

The 2 year window and article 50 was an addition from UK ironically

Also they did not have to lodge the article 50 letter when they did, they could have spent years preparing and figuring out what it is exactly they want to accomplish.

Finally the EU gave an extension twice now for them to figure out what they want, instead of doing that UK govt doubled down on stupid.

Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure

#42

Post by bluepnume »

mettamage wrote: post #22

Since the vote was so close, why not do another referendum on doing another referendum? You can organize this with one referendum, which is: 1. Would you like to do another referendum on leaving the EU? A) Yes B) No 2. Great-Brittain should leave the EU A) Yes B) No If people still want Great-Brittain to leave, then they bought themselves some time and otherwise this whole brexit thing has been resolved.

Neither question gives a specific enough answer to get us out of the current mess.

Referenda are great for when you have a specific plan of action, and the question is just "implement this plan: yes or no".

Anything less, and nobody is clear what anybody was actually voting for. There's a reason Parliament votes on legislation after it's written, rather than before.

Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure

#43

Post by alkonaut »

jfk13 wrote: post #16

Scaremongering headline; I thought NPR was better than that. The document doesn't "predict" any such thing. It considers a number of worst-case scenarios of things that could happen, but that's a far cry from predicting that every worst-case scenario will actually come to pass.

It’s called “base scenario” as far as I understand. The document is said to be outdated though.

Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure

#44

Post by trilila »

throwaway122379 wrote: post #25
trilila wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The eu is basically a german/french dictatorship. The thing is, once the uk recovers after the leave event, many other eu countries will follow suit.

What? EU is loose federation of 28 EQUAL members I think the UK has a problem with being an equal and has not got over its loss of empire, just look at how they treat their own constituent countries such as Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales

The eu is far from a federation. And there is much imbalance between eu countries that a few more will burst against germany’s dictats. Everything that happens in the eu is decided by that country. Really worrying that few other countries speak up against it.

Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure

#45

Post by sleavey »

throwaway122379 wrote: post #25
trilila wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The eu is basically a german/french dictatorship. The thing is, once the uk recovers after the leave event, many other eu countries will follow suit.

What? EU is loose federation of 28 EQUAL members I think the UK has a problem with being an equal and has not got over its loss of empire, just look at how they treat their own constituent countries such as Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales

> just look at how they treat their own constituent countries such as Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales

Don't forget England. Brexit is basically just an English nationalist idea. Ironically, if the UK had devolved more powers to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland (something the Westminster parliament has generally fought against), England might have found its own thirst for taking back control satiated.

Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure

#46

Post by LifeLiverTransp »

sleavey wrote: post #34
mettamage wrote: post #22

Since the vote was so close, why not do another referendum on doing another referendum? You can organize this with one referendum, which is: 1. Would you like to do another referendum on leaving the EU? A) Yes B) No 2. Great-Brittain should leave the EU A) Yes B) No If people still want Great-Brittain to leave, then they bought themselves some time and otherwise this whole brexit thing has been resolved.

You joke, but asking the uninformed public to vote on such deep constitutional matters was what got the UK into this mess. Barely anyone in the public was qualified to give their judgement on the merits of continuing inside the EU versus the concept of being out of it. The question was then morphed by the Leave side into "do you think we should stop immigrants coming to the UK?", with the consequences we can all see…

Sorry, your elitistic-technocratic view is deeply undemocratic. Maybe the european union is not at all such a begnign, citizen loving moloch as depicted here. Maybee a disenfranchised population outside of london-city has found that there own fates have been in decline ever since they hope aboard the international-meta-culture and the empty "bigger is better for buisness (and you)". And they have every right to vote for a leave. Great britain has been democratic (at least at home) ever since democracy came to be there. I have greater confidence in the common voter, then in those elites who allowed the world to spin itself apart- to whichs echo chamber you obviously belong.

Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure

#47

Post by te_chris »

mikedilger wrote: post #28
te_chris wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a govt risk assessment document, not just “politics”. Assuming you’re a brexiteer....what exactly is the positive case for brexit now? Because no one I can hear is making it, merely saying it has to happen, like a visit to one’s in laws that destroys the economy and fractures society.

The case for Brexit that I've heard from the beginning has not changed, so if you honestly haven't heard it, it goes something like this: the primary goal is to retain sovereignty while Britain still can; to arrest the slow but inexorable yielding of power to unelected officials of the E.U.

No I mean now, today August 18 2019, now that we actually know what it means and, more importantly, what it will cost. Why on earth would we do this?

Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure

#48

Post by throwaway122379 »

trilila wrote: post #44
throwaway122379 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? EU is loose federation of 28 EQUAL members I think the UK has a problem with being an equal and has not got over its loss of empire, just look at how they treat their own constituent countries such as Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales

The eu is far from a federation. And there is much imbalance between eu countries that a few more will burst against germany’s dictats. Everything that happens in the eu is decided by that country. Really worrying that few other countries speak up against it.

Care to provide an example?

Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure

#49

Post by arethuza »

mikedilger wrote: post #28
te_chris wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a govt risk assessment document, not just “politics”. Assuming you’re a brexiteer....what exactly is the positive case for brexit now? Because no one I can hear is making it, merely saying it has to happen, like a visit to one’s in laws that destroys the economy and fractures society.

The case for Brexit that I've heard from the beginning has not changed, so if you honestly haven't heard it, it goes something like this: the primary goal is to retain sovereignty while Britain still can; to arrest the slow but inexorable yielding of power to unelected officials of the E.U.

I seem to remember that one of the pro-Brexit arguments was to "retain sovereignty" for parliament which, rather ironically, doesn't seem very keen on the idea at all.

Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure

#50

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

cybersnowflake wrote: post #2

The EU and the British establishment will do everything they can to punish the UK for their insolence. All the more reason it was a good idea to #Leave. Better to take whatever lumps that come now.

There are many things wrong with the EU, but the stuff the UK complains about are entirely self-inflicted.
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