Political opposition leaked a scare document? Welcome to politics.
No, this document was drafted by Boris Johnson's pro-Brexit government.
E: Apparently it was his predecessor, but it's nevertheless not drafted by Labour.
Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure
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Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure
#32The EU and the British establishment will do everything they can to punish the UK for their insolence. All the more reason it was a good idea to #Leave. Better to take whatever lumps that come now.
Agreed. The eu is basically a german/french dictatorship. The thing is, once the uk recovers after the leave event, many other eu countries will follow suit.
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Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure
#33If true, would this not point towards avoiding such unions in the future?
No, it just points to a. Having a reasonable exit process (the default of two years makes no sense) and b. The public having the patience to understand 40+ years of cooperation can't be rolled back in a matter of months.
Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure
#34Since the vote was so close, why not do another referendum on doing another referendum? You can organize this with one referendum, which is: 1. Would you like to do another referendum on leaving the EU? A) Yes B) No 2. Great-Brittain should leave the EU A) Yes B) No If people still want Great-Brittain to leave, then they bought themselves some time and otherwise this whole brexit thing has been resolved.
You joke, but asking the uninformed public to vote on such deep constitutional matters was what got the UK into this mess. Barely anyone in the public was qualified to give their judgement on the merits of continuing inside the EU versus the concept of being out of it. The question was then morphed by the Leave side into "do you think we should stop immigrants coming to the UK?", with the consequences we can all see now.
Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure
#35Political opposition leaked a scare document? Welcome to politics.
No, this document was drafted by Boris Johnson's pro-Brexit government. E: Apparently it was his predecessor, but it's nevertheless not drafted by Labour.
It’s right there in the article:
>The Financial Times quoted government insiders who rebutted the document, saying it is not a realistic scenario for a no-deal Brexit and pointing out that it was written under the leadership of Johnson's predecessor, Theresa May, and does not reflect the preparations spearheaded by Johnson that are now underway.
>”This document is from when ministers were blocking what needed to be done to get ready to leave and the funds were not available. It has been deliberately leaked by a former minister in an attempt to influence discussions with EU leaders," a source told the paper.
Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s a govt risk assessment document, not just “politics”. Assuming you’re a brexiteer....what exactly is the positive case for brexit now? Because no one I can hear is making it, merely saying it has to happen, like a visit to one’s in laws that destroys the economy and fractures society.
The case for Brexit that I've heard from the beginning has not changed, so if you honestly haven't heard it, it goes something like this: the primary goal is to retain sovereignty while Britain still can; to arrest the slow but inexorable yielding of power to unelected officials of the E.U.
Can you explain which unelected officials you are talking about specifically. How does the number of unelected officials differ from the national government of the UK?
In both cases there is a parliament where you vote for someone to represent your area. You cannot vote for anyone outside your area. In the EU your area is a country and in the UK your area is a smaller part of the country. If you live in Scotland, northen Ireland or Wales you are also governed by a different "country" with unelected officials.
Then you have the truly unelected members of government. Advisors and ministry beaurocrats and administrators.
I simply cannot wrap my head around how people can keep regurgitating this crap. All western democracies are full of "unelected" officials. The EU is not some special unelected body. You have your vote and you vote for a representative to represent your constituency. Stop spreading this nonsense.
Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s a govt risk assessment document, not just “politics”. Assuming you’re a brexiteer....what exactly is the positive case for brexit now? Because no one I can hear is making it, merely saying it has to happen, like a visit to one’s in laws that destroys the economy and fractures society.
The case for Brexit that I've heard from the beginning has not changed, so if you honestly haven't heard it, it goes something like this: the primary goal is to retain sovereignty while Britain still can; to arrest the slow but inexorable yielding of power to unelected officials of the E.U.
but eveyrone elected those unelected officials in the European elections a few months ago.
Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. The eu is basically a german/french dictatorship. The thing is, once the uk recovers after the leave event, many other eu countries will follow suit.
What? EU is loose federation of 28 EQUAL members I think the UK has a problem with being an equal and has not got over its loss of empire, just look at how they treat their own constituent countries such as Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales
> What? EU is loose federation of 29 EQUAL members
To be fair: whatever us Germans and the French want, we eventually get - most often by outright nation-scale bribery. It's all backroom dealing - for example, us Germans get no opposition preventing harsher pollution regimes EU-wide (to protect our heavy car-oriented industry), the countries which would oppose get EU funding grants for construction or whatever.
Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure
#39If true, would this not point towards avoiding such unions in the future?
You could just not cooperate with anyone if you're afraid of what happens when you decide unilaterally to stop cooperating.
Re: Leaked Brexit Document Predicts 'Catastrophic Collapse' of U.K. Infrastructure
#40Since the vote was so close, why not do another referendum on doing another referendum? You can organize this with one referendum, which is: 1. Would you like to do another referendum on leaving the EU? A) Yes B) No 2. Great-Brittain should leave the EU A) Yes B) No If people still want Great-Brittain to leave, then they bought themselves some time and otherwise this whole brexit thing has been resolved.
You joke, but asking the uninformed public to vote on such deep constitutional matters was what got the UK into this mess. Barely anyone in the public was qualified to give their judgement on the merits of continuing inside the EU versus the concept of being out of it. The question was then morphed by the Leave side into "do you think we should stop immigrants coming to the UK?", with the consequences we can all see…
It's like voting over whether vaccines work or not...
Some things should be left to experts.
This is the major criticism of direct democracy.