California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’ • Hacker News Board

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#71

Post by ceejayoz » Sun, Aug 18, 2019, 3:20 PM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #67

weeksie wrote: post #14

Build. More. Homeless. Shelters. California is so damned NIMBY'd up that they refuse to build shelters and act surprised when homeless people sleep outside. Then they throw their hands up in the air like "uh, it must be the weather" It's stupid. In New York we have more homeless per capita and in absolute numbers but we have nothing like the street issues that west coast cities have. It's because we actually house th…

It's not quite that simple. The West Coast has seen a huge influx of homeless people (ex. [1] - 12% YoY increase in LA) while the nation overall has seen a drop [2]. If your homeless population is steady or falling it's easier to build enough services for them than if thousands more arrive every year. Also, I agree that more shelters and services need to be built, but it would be nice if the Federal government pitche…

California's also exporting their homeless problems.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#72

Post by jquery » Sun, Aug 18, 2019, 3:21 PM UTC

weeksie wrote: post #36

bradleyjg wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we have nothing like the street issues that west coast cities have Maybe not as bad west coast cities, but since January 1, 2014 things have gotten significantly, noticeably worse. In subway stations and cars, in the streets, in the parks, in Penn Station -- all over. And as you point out we have enough shelter beds for everyone. NYC 2019 is not what good looks like.

God, I miss Bloomberg.

I feel like a lot of cities in America are suffering from applying national politics to their local elections. Electing a Republican or conservative/centrist Democrat every now and then wouldn't be a bad thing, Democrats do not have a monopoly on solving local issues in a compassionate yet effective manner, in fact I'd claim that the increasing ease with which the Democrat candidate wins elections in major American cities contributes to the lack of urgency and a sense of complacency with the status quo. It limits the range of possible solutions to a local minima. I expect the problems to get worse before they get better.

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#73

Post by 4ntonius8lock » Sun, Aug 18, 2019, 3:21 PM UTC

weeksie wrote: post #14

Build. More. Homeless. Shelters. California is so damned NIMBY'd up that they refuse to build shelters and act surprised when homeless people sleep outside. Then they throw their hands up in the air like "uh, it must be the weather" It's stupid. In New York we have more homeless per capita and in absolute numbers but we have nothing like the street issues that west coast cities have. It's because we actually house th…

This is just anecdotal data but...

I've found East coast/southern police to be way more inclined to the use of force, even excessive force, when dealing with the homeless.

Personally, I 'feel' this difference. On the East coast, when a homeless man approaches me, I feel they fear a negative reaction. There are also way more police. The situation is the opposite on the West coast.

Now, I'm not saying this is what SHOULD be. I really am against police brutality. But I always like to pay attention to unspoken rules, they help me adapt.

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#74

Post by throwawaybdb25 » Sun, Aug 18, 2019, 3:23 PM UTC

weeksie wrote: post #14

Build. More. Homeless. Shelters. California is so damned NIMBY'd up that they refuse to build shelters and act surprised when homeless people sleep outside. Then they throw their hands up in the air like "uh, it must be the weather" It's stupid. In New York we have more homeless per capita and in absolute numbers but we have nothing like the street issues that west coast cities have. It's because we actually house th…

NYC is getting worse. We have something like 60,000 beds available, but those are filled beyond capacity every night. The actual homeless population is certain to be higher than reported.

We're starting to see semi-permanent encampments, human feces on the sidewalks and used needles in the gutters. (haven't seen discarded needles since the mid 90s). Storefronts are vacant all over. Anywhere there's a sidewalk shed -- and there are plenty -- there will be people sleeping (and defecating) under it. The cops are completely demoralized and our useless mayor is campaigning for president with 0.08% support.

People are openly wishing for a long, cold winter to keep the sidewalks clean.

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#75

Post by gamblor956 » Sun, Aug 18, 2019, 3:25 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #71

mdorazio wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not quite that simple. The West Coast has seen a huge influx of homeless people (ex. [1] - 12% YoY increase in LA) while the nation overall has seen a drop [2]. If your homeless population is steady or falling it's easier to build enough services for them than if thousands more arrive every year. Also, I agree that more shelters and services need to be built, but it would be nice if the Federal government pitche…

California's also exporting their homeless problems. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...

Correction: we're sending a lot of the homeless back to the cities they came from.

(Texas used to brag about shipping their homeless problem to LA.)

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#76

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Aug 18, 2019, 3:26 PM UTC

hristov wrote: post #56

This is very much a problem but it is incorrectly stated as California's problem. This America’s problem. It just so happens that because California is relatively rich, tends to have some of the most tolerable year round weather and the people are relatively compassionate a large percentage of the homeless of all of America are moving to California. How many times have you heard some politician or just an ordinary pe…

[deleted]

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#77

Post by pmoriarty » Sun, Aug 18, 2019, 3:27 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #18

pjc50 wrote: post #2

> Without wishing to return to the Elizabethan Poor Laws, we ought to consider what was lost when the courts discouraged Americans from thinking of “homelessness” in light of the old laws against vagrancy. Ah, so we're back to imprisoning the homeless (at huge expense) rather than providing, say, public toilets or shelter facilities. Not only is the WSJ not learning from history, they don't want to learn from history…

There are public toilets in some of these cities. San Francisco has had self-cleaning public toilets for a long time, but probably has the worst feces problem of any first world country. On Google maps, it appears there are at least 20 public bathrooms in SF within a few miles radius. That's way more than I see when searching for the same thing in Santa Monica, another homeless mecca that doesn't have anywhere near t…

There should be at least one clean and safe public toilet per block that has a "defecation crisis".

Instead, SF has maybe one public toilet per 20 or 30 blocks in the most concentrated downtown areas, if that. I personally know of only maybe 3 or 4 public toilets in all of SF.

Toilet use at private businesses is also sometimes an option, but often in neighborhoods with large homeless populations those businesses either restrict toilet use to customers or only let the staff use their toilets. Of course, homeless people can rarely afford to keep spending money to purchase things from these businesses multiple times per day just to use their toilets, not to mention that virtually all these businesses close for the night in SF, making it impossible to find a toilet in some areas at night.

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#78

Post by sethammons » Sun, Aug 18, 2019, 3:27 PM UTC

api wrote: post #65

weeksie wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's terrible everywhere but seems especially bad in California. We're hardly immune. Our boro president was celebrating a lawsuit blocking a new 5000(!) unit development as if it was a victory for housing justice. That said, the YIMBY message seems to be making headway. I hear a lot more pro-housing chatter than I did ten years ago, so at least that's something.

What logic could that person possibly be following? It's just mind boggling. In any case, that's why I want to see local planning just abolished. These people are so clueless or self-serving (not sure which, don't care) that I don't see any reasoning with them or even talking to them. Just fire them all and abolish their offices.

Easy: people require infrastructure and many land developers ignore it. More lanes on roads being a big one. In my former neck of the woods, a developer is putting in 1 or 2 thousands homes. They will connect right onto the two lane highway, miles from the freeway that already has too much traffic causing chaos in the rush hours. The developers will make a bundle if they don't go bankrupt first, and the community will be worse off.

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#79

Post by throwawaybdb25 » Sun, Aug 18, 2019, 3:28 PM UTC

weeksie wrote: post #14

Build. More. Homeless. Shelters. California is so damned NIMBY'd up that they refuse to build shelters and act surprised when homeless people sleep outside. Then they throw their hands up in the air like "uh, it must be the weather" It's stupid. In New York we have more homeless per capita and in absolute numbers but we have nothing like the street issues that west coast cities have. It's because we actually house th…

> Our parks aren't by any means pristine but we don't suddenly sprout tent cities every summer.

Come for a walk with me. There are tents and makeshift shelters in the north end of Central Park (west side, north of 96th) and in the parks along both rivers if you know where to look.

Re: California’s Biggest Cities Confront a ‘Defecation Crisis’

#80

Post by mlyle » Sun, Aug 18, 2019, 3:32 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #71

mdorazio wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not quite that simple. The West Coast has seen a huge influx of homeless people (ex. [1] - 12% YoY increase in LA) while the nation overall has seen a drop [2]. If your homeless population is steady or falling it's easier to build enough services for them than if thousands more arrive every year. Also, I agree that more shelters and services need to be built, but it would be nice if the Federal government pitche…

California's also exporting their homeless problems. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...

California has a big net-influx of homeless because of both relatively generous legal environment and state services (even if there is a shelter crisis) and favorable weather.

Yes, California is trying to send some of the homeless back to where they come from, to little avail.