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The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

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Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#161
post #148
post #100

For some reason, solar roads are a very aggressive meme (in the classical sense of the word). They capture the imagination and blind people to engineering reality. Solar roads do not make any sense whatsoever, as you wrote pretty much any other place is better for panels.

They capture the imagination because there are plenty of places you don’t want to build solar panels. Namely places that you want to leave alone for ecological or recreational purposes. If you can take a piece of infrastructure that is pervasive throughout a built environment and give it additional purpose, then you can save on or reduce the land you specify for this purpose. Does it work? Apparently not, or at least…

The thing is though that currently most roads are made from asphalt, yet even that is not durable enough and needs to be periodically reapplied, how a glass can compete with that?

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#162
Does anyone but me have the suspicion that the animosity towards solar roads was something to do with a 'nerve being touched', some kind of 'triggering'? Sure, they might not work out, but lots of stupid-sounding ideas ('a horseless carriage? Whatever next?') have turned out to work, just as much as lots of somewhat futuristic but nonetheless sensible sounding ideas have turned out not to be here yet ('flying cars are just around the corner'). Who knows, at some point in the future, with different technologies and materials, different efficiencies and performance, we might indeed find solar energy being collected from roads. Just as we are laughing right now at the current, ludicrously oversold and patently unsuccessful efforts, future generations may be laughing at our arrogant dismissal of an idea that might ultimately have just turned out to have been ahead of its time. Let's applaud the audacity of the solar roadways hubris in the spirit of uninhibited innovative endeavour, just as much as we pat ourselves on the back for having successfully spotted its obvious shortcomings and predicted its seemingly inevitable struggle for survival.

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#163
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an experiment that can yield anything or teach us anything if there is no paper and no data. A fraudulent startup maybe.

There's abundant data. some 2 years worth of daily power generation from road installed PV panels. A ~$5mm experiment, that also resulted in a 1km road. Your local physics department spends x10 that budget yearly, and you can't move your car on the arxiv papers it produces (if any). P.S - Colas is not a startup https://www.colas.com/

> There's abundant data. some 2 years worth of daily power generation from road installed PC panels

I'm not sure how is this relevant. How this data can help engineer proper solar roadways? Where is the data on all the problems they had to solve and problems they couldn't solve?

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#164

This article from 4 days ago says a solar road in the Netherlands is doing well, so it seems like the French road is just a bad design? I don’t know if they are in fact different hardware: https://www.businessinsider.com/worlds-first-solar-road-turn...

Nope the netherlands solar cycling road is not doing fine it had to be cemented over because it couldn't be repaired. https://mobile.twitter.com/davidhembrow/status/1122496304008...

The chinese solar road died as well. https://interestingengineering.com/solar-roadways-engineerin... (no they weren't stolen a later article reported that entire panel sections came off through traffic) https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2131241/chin...

So did the german. https://www.ksta.de/region/rhein-erft/erftstadt/feuerwehr-mu...

And I don't want to start with solar freaking roadways where normal pavement failed within a month.

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#165

French officials said the road, made of photovoltaic panels, would generate electricity to power streetlights in Tourouvre, a local town. I don't know how reliable they are, but solar-powered streetlights are already common in some areas --- and being mounted high above on the lights themselves, the panels are far less likely to be damaged.

Wonder if that would also help reduce light pollution if the panel was wide enough compared to the lens over the light.

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#166
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe they were really unaware. They either overestimated the durability of their devices or were running a quasi scam.

political stunt wasting funds.. someone clueless decided or was lobbied to pick this thing.

This + quasi-scam. There's a lot of money to be made in the "going green" space and if lying about your product gets you the contract, only the government (citizens) lose and you laugh all the way to the bank. I wish more government contracts had forced warranty / refund clauses (whatever those are called).

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#167

Does anyone but me have the suspicion that the animosity towards solar roads was something to do with a 'nerve being touched', some kind of 'triggering'? Sure, they might not work out, but lots of stupid-sounding ideas ('a horseless carriage? Whatever next?') have turned out to work, just as much as lots of somewhat futuristic but nonetheless sensible sounding ideas have turned out not to be here yet ('flying cars ar…

Yeah I don't know why the article is so negative. Any engineer would look at this and say, "cool, a few more problems to solve" not "well golly, I guess there's nothing we can do about a few leaves".

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#168
post #122

I never managed to see the advantages of having a solar road compared to just having a normal road with solar panels next to it. Or above it. Or literally anywhere else. In fact I can't think of many areas that still get direct sunlight that would make for a worse place to put solar panels than on the road...

The advantage that people wanted to get is that in the end you also get a road. Roads take up space, cost money to build and maintain. If you build it next to the road the road need twice the amount of space and still require the space, construction and material for the actually road. If you build it above the road you get all the issue of overhead roof on a road (trees that fall on it, wind, height limitation). In a…

So the problem is that a normal road costs on the order of $3 million per mile, and a solar road costs... 10 times as much. And it doesn't last as long.

It just does not make sense.

Re: The first solar road has turned out to be a disappointing failure

#169
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They capture the imagination because there are plenty of places you don’t want to build solar panels. Namely places that you want to leave alone for ecological or recreational purposes. If you can take a piece of infrastructure that is pervasive throughout a built environment and give it additional purpose, then you can save on or reduce the land you specify for this purpose. Does it work? Apparently not, or at least…

It's not an experiment that can yield anything or teach us anything if there is no paper and no data. A fraudulent startup maybe.

How big is your laboratory? Is it a space you rent out, or is it all the known Universe and all of its history?

We’ve been learning things by trial and error a lot longer than we’ve been practicing the Scientific Method. You don’t always get the data you want. You don’t always get someone to summarize the data in a nicely formatted paper published in a respected journal. You get what you get and if not quite like it, make do.

If this sort of thing, Solar Roads, doesn’t interest you, that is fine too. Maybe you even have credible reasons to be Anti-Solar Roads. It’s certainly shaky enough ground to start on, but I wouldn’t discredit this road in France as a useful experiment simply because there wasn’t a paper at the end. Thunderstorms and fallen leaves! Maybe they should have known, but they didn’t, and because they didn’t consider that, it’s exciting because now how can we go about addressing the problem if we wish to try this again? Maybe someone can build a road and let it get hit by Thunderstorms just to analyze the rate of fire, so to speak. Maybe someone can build one somewhere else to figure out how it differs from one location to another. Maybe we build a third, and start figuring if a solar road is more likely to attract strikes from a storm than other types of roads? Can we mitigate this with some kind of lightning rod? How many do we need and how spaced apart should they be? Can we capture the energy from the lightning or are they too infrequent even in the vicinity of the solar roads to be worth the bother?

A lot of those questions might already be answered or answerable without having to build all of those roads to figure it out, but at the very least, a little roadway in France can spark a lot of questions that are worth answering for anyone trying this anywhere else.

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