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US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

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Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#81

Post by RickS »

azinman2 wrote: post #65
asclepi wrote: post #55

I do notice a pattern of misunderstanding that I've also observed when talking with Android users IRL. iMessage is very different from Whatsapp. For starters, there is no dedicated iMessage app. iMessage is managed from the iOS Messages app, which handles both iMessage and SMS. It's very good at managing both from one unified interface. In fact, it's so good that it uses arbitrary coloring of messages so you can see…

Sorry, but group chat over SMS is crap. Lots of Android phones as well don’t operate group SMS well, you get reduced resolution in photos and videos, can’t like/heart messages in the same way, no typing indicators, etc etc. Losing iMessage features sucks when you’re otherwise used to it.

> reduced resolution in photos and videos

This and group names are the absolute killers.

It's tough. My understanding is that SMS is at fault under the surface, requiring that images and videos be compressed to fit a size limit (right?).

My preferred solution would be mandated adversarial interoperability.

Absent that, I wish android could bundle images into a dead simple hosting site that send me a link to all the images, at max resolution, displayed with zero chrome whatsoever, in a browser window. Then I can download them like normal assets (with my press-and-hold browser utils. no third party UI).

Receiving photos packaged in a google library, for example, is a nightmare.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#82

Post by sidr »

pcmoney wrote: post #41
dajohnson89 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is there any evidence of WhatsApp conversations being monitored?

Last I checked: Actual text of convo: not yet but soon. Metadata: yes.

So you believe whatsapp is not e2e encrypted? Or they're going to roll it back?

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#83

Post by NobodyNada »

NullPrefix wrote: post #73
azinman2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but group chat over SMS is crap. Lots of Android phones as well don’t operate group SMS well, you get reduced resolution in photos and videos, can’t like/heart messages in the same way, no typing indicators, etc etc. Losing iMessage features sucks when you’re otherwise used to it.

>no typing indicators That is a feature. Also no "seen" privacy violators.

Read receipts are disabled by default IIRC. In the rare cases where I'm drafting a message long enough to worry about the typing indicator, it's usually easier anyway to compose it in a text editor/notes app and copy/paste when I'm ready to send.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#84

Post by RickS »

NullPrefix wrote: post #73
azinman2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but group chat over SMS is crap. Lots of Android phones as well don’t operate group SMS well, you get reduced resolution in photos and videos, can’t like/heart messages in the same way, no typing indicators, etc etc. Losing iMessage features sucks when you’re otherwise used to it.

>no typing indicators That is a feature. Also no "seen" privacy violators.

Agreed on the "typing" thing being somewhat invasive. I'm not sure that can be turned off...

In iMessage, the "seen" notis (read receipts) are set on the reader side. They're totally customizable and can be globally disabled.

I have them on personally, because I find that it encourages good reply etiquette on my part, but they're easy to turn off in a granular way. chat-by-chat, whenever you want.

I'm not sure how this works for IG, others. I believe in whatsapp you can turn them off at the expense of losing that info for everyone else, but I'm not 100% on that.

The feature is extraordinarily useful in group chats. If you're trying to change venues while coordinating a group activity with people that haven't arrived, you get a realtime picture of who has up-to-date information and who doesn't. Makes a big difference.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#85

Post by nerdjon »

RickS wrote: post #81
azinman2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but group chat over SMS is crap. Lots of Android phones as well don’t operate group SMS well, you get reduced resolution in photos and videos, can’t like/heart messages in the same way, no typing indicators, etc etc. Losing iMessage features sucks when you’re otherwise used to it.

> reduced resolution in photos and videos This and group names are the absolute killers. It's tough. My understanding is that SMS is at fault under the surface, requiring that images and videos be compressed to fit a size limit (right?). My preferred solution would be mandated adversarial interoperability. Absent that, I wish android could bundle images into a dead simple hosting site that send me a link to all the i…

> Absent that, I wish android could bundle images into a dead simple hosting site that send me a link to all the images, at max resolution, displayed with zero chrome whatsoever, in a browser window. Then I can download them like normal assets (with my press-and-hold browser utils. no third party UI).

I would not be particularly happy to find out that someone I was messaging on an Android phone could easily just send up any images I send them to a public site.

(Already not happy with Google having data about me that I do not consent to thanks to people with Android phones)

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#86

Post by asclepi »

azinman2 wrote: post #65
asclepi wrote: post #55

I do notice a pattern of misunderstanding that I've also observed when talking with Android users IRL. iMessage is very different from Whatsapp. For starters, there is no dedicated iMessage app. iMessage is managed from the iOS Messages app, which handles both iMessage and SMS. It's very good at managing both from one unified interface. In fact, it's so good that it uses arbitrary coloring of messages so you can see…

Sorry, but group chat over SMS is crap. Lots of Android phones as well don’t operate group SMS well, you get reduced resolution in photos and videos, can’t like/heart messages in the same way, no typing indicators, etc etc. Losing iMessage features sucks when you’re otherwise used to it.

That's subjective, but your observations are valid in many scenarios.

The point I want to make is that Messages is not preventing them from including Android users because they don't have an iPhone, which is a general misunderstanding that I often observe when talking with Android users who use Whatsapp or similar and is also recurring here. If the Android user gets locked out, it's because a human decided to, not because Messages refused to include that user based on ecosystem lock-in (unlike Whatsapp).

However, like Twitter OP, I can testify that teens attach a lot more weight to the blue/green than they should. But then again, it's everywhere in popular culture. Try finding a recent hit movie/TV series or music video, produced in the US, that shows green bubbles (or Android for that matter, even though it has a higher market share).

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#87

Post by d-sc »

iamwpj wrote: post #4

It's misleading to just say "because of the green text" it's so much more than that. If you have an active iMessage chat and users are using iMessage features, it's a weird experience for the non-iMessage folks. It seemed like a real victory to have emojis in the UTF format, but of course now Apple turns on the big FU and finds other ways to chide non-iMessage users. Don't blame the kids.

Emojis are a Japanese thing. Apple didn’t enable them at first in the States.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#88

Post by kefabean »

sidr wrote: post #82
pcmoney wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked: Actual text of convo: not yet but soon. Metadata: yes.

So you believe whatsapp is not e2e encrypted? Or they're going to roll it back?

They don’t need to roll-back the E2E encryption, they can just access the data right there on the device after it’s decrypted and upload data back to FB via a sidecar. It will start with basic mining of content on the device with ‘anonymous’ summary or aggregate data being uploaded but it’s a slippery slope...

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#89

Post by rconti »

Kadin wrote: post #64

I switched to iOS (via a used iPhone on a BYOD plan) primarily for iMessage. I was tired of being the odd man out, missing out on things that were being planned via group messages, etc. Nobody was going to switch to an entirely different mode of communication just for my sake, so the existence of theoretical alternatives doesn't really matter. (And I do try to use Facebook Messenger for group chats, so as not to lock…

Thanks for bringing up how this is Google's fault -- or, at least, the failure of Google and everyone else who isn't Apple.

iMessage has lots of problems. I've screwed it up a lot of times switching SIM cards, I can never understand why it needs to know if I want to contact my iMessage contact by email or by phone number, or why the messages thread differently depending on what I use. But it GENERALLY works okay.

Meanwhile, I use Signal with one friend, and just about every time I launch the damn app on my phone or desktop, it complains that I need an update, or I need to re-link something, or my safety numbers of changed, or some such crap.

And it's all better than Messenger.

And all of THAT stuff is better than Google's incessant abandonware. I loved hangouts.. until I didn't.

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