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US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

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Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#61

Post by damnyou »

pcmoney wrote: post #39
damnyou wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are forced to buy apps from Apple if you want to use iMessage. Forced to use Apple's crappy voice software. Forced to use Apple's crappy TV box if you want to mirror your screen.

But the flip side of all those choices are all massive privacy invasions or security risks. Apple App Store is a walled Garden but the Banking App you get from the Apple Store is guaranteed to be the actual app from the bank it says it is. ( https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/06/24/google-pl... ) Plus the apps on the App Store are often of much higher quality than the Google Play store because of how much m…

What in the world are you talking about!? WhatsApp doesn't invade your life just to talk to your friends.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#62

Post by tguedes »

anchpop wrote: post #42
word-reader wrote: post #10

It's not just about it "being green", the contrast between the text and the background is lower with the green SMS bubbles than the blue iMessage bubbles, making it harder to read. I guarantee you if the SMS bubbles were a shade or two darker green people wouldn't care as much.

Its pretty interesting that Apple, who pride themselves so much on form, chose that undeniably unpleasant shade of green.

I think its on purpose. Associate an unpleasant color with Android so if you ever switch from iPhone to Android you know you will show up as the same unpleasant green on their phones.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#63

Post by damnyou »

CDSlice wrote: post #43
damnyou wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are forced to buy apps from Apple if you want to use iMessage. Forced to use Apple's crappy voice software. Forced to use Apple's crappy TV box if you want to mirror your screen.

You don't buy apps from Apple, you buy them through Apple's app store (an important difference). You can use other voice assistants, you just can't set them as the default (which is a reasonable complaint) As an Android guy, I have to say that after trying Rokus, Fire TVs, and chromecasts the Apple TV is far from crappy and is honestly one of the best smart TV boxes. Anyway, you can also buy a lightning to HDMI adapt…

Of course you buy apps from Apple. That's why Apple, worth gobloads of money, can impose a 30% tax on independent app developers' labor.

You can't even tell users how to subscribe without giving Apple a cut if you're on iOS. To any normal person that's an egregious abuse of power. Somehow people on HN just suck it up.

Does WhatsApp force a particular voice assistant or app store on you? No? Apple's lock in is abusive.

Stop prostrating in front of trillion dollar megacorps for $deity's sake. Apple is probably the biggest blind spot this site has.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#64

Post by Kadin »

I switched to iOS (via a used iPhone on a BYOD plan) primarily for iMessage. I was tired of being the odd man out, missing out on things that were being planned via group messages, etc. Nobody was going to switch to an entirely different mode of communication just for my sake, so the existence of theoretical alternatives doesn't really matter. (And I do try to use Facebook Messenger for group chats, so as not to lock Android people out myself, since I've been on the other side of that and it sucks.)

But really this is Google's problem, not Apple's.

Google could have owned this space if they hadn't taken their eye off the ball and fucked up Hangouts. There was a period of time where everyone used Hangouts, and they did a brilliant job getting market penetration by including it in Gmail. It's cross-platform, so it could have been the lowest-common-denominator in over the top messaging services, the thing that everyone knew everyone else could use when you want something that's not SMS or kludgy MMS.

But Google snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, seemingly intentionally driving people off of Hangouts into other apps. This was incredibly stupid -- when you tell your users to switch to a different app, they may well switch to a competitor's. If they wanted to roll out additional features, they should have done it in Hangouts, not by building new services. (And RCS is garbage. I don't know who wants a carrier-dependent, unencrypted messaging service in 2019, but certainly not me.)

The lack of a viable iMessage alternative is entirely because of Google's failure to invest in the Android platform and produce one.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#65

Post by azinman2 »

asclepi wrote: post #55

I do notice a pattern of misunderstanding that I've also observed when talking with Android users IRL. iMessage is very different from Whatsapp. For starters, there is no dedicated iMessage app. iMessage is managed from the iOS Messages app, which handles both iMessage and SMS. It's very good at managing both from one unified interface. In fact, it's so good that it uses arbitrary coloring of messages so you can see…

Sorry, but group chat over SMS is crap. Lots of Android phones as well don’t operate group SMS well, you get reduced resolution in photos and videos, can’t like/heart messages in the same way, no typing indicators, etc etc. Losing iMessage features sucks when you’re otherwise used to it.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#66

Post by mdszy »

damnyou wrote: post #20
iamwpj wrote: post #4

It's misleading to just say "because of the green text" it's so much more than that. If you have an active iMessage chat and users are using iMessage features, it's a weird experience for the non-iMessage folks. It seemed like a real victory to have emojis in the UTF format, but of course now Apple turns on the big FU and finds other ways to chide non-iMessage users. Don't blame the kids.

The kids could just be inclusive and switch to Telegram or WhatsApp or even Messenger. But the kids want to discriminate — humans, particularly Americans, thrive on excluding other people. the kids are just imitating the patterns they pick up from adults.

yeah fuck americans am i right

totally has nothing to do with the fact that it's a built in app where you don't have to do anything extra to set it up

no-sir-ee

it's the americans who are bad!

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#68

Post by Barrin92 »

pcmoney wrote: post #22
damnyou wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WhatsApp doesn't make you buy $750 dongles and force itself onto the rest of your life in order to communicate with your friends.

It does sell your data and is not secure. What $750 dongle? You can get an iPhone for like $300 these days. Forces itself into your life? How? Apple's data security is better than literally every other smart phone provider and its OS is fundamentally less intrusive than Android.

whatsapp messages are by default encrypted regardless of the used device, whereas imessages to android devices are simply plain text. Also which of my data does whatsapp sell, and in what way is the android operating system intruding on me? If anything ios intrudes on its users by tying key functionality of its messaging service (encryption) to the apple platform.

This post is honestly full of unfounded claims, like the rest of this thread. The HN bias towards apple as a company is straight up strange.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#69

Post by Bellyache5 »

n8henry wrote: post #58
asclepi wrote: post #55

I do notice a pattern of misunderstanding that I've also observed when talking with Android users IRL. iMessage is very different from Whatsapp. For starters, there is no dedicated iMessage app. iMessage is managed from the iOS Messages app, which handles both iMessage and SMS. It's very good at managing both from one unified interface. In fact, it's so good that it uses arbitrary coloring of messages so you can see…

They are locking their Android friends out of group messages, which are very popular among that age group.

Based on that Twitter thread, they are starting new group messages that don't include their Android friends and abandoning the original group message.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#70

Post by throw0101a »

Lock-in doesn't last forever: just ask ICQ, MSN, and BBM.

My sister used all of those things as she was growing up in the 2000s and 2010s. The flavour-of-the-day is now iMessage. She sometimes complains that I'm not on the system (supposedly handy to group chat with our mom), but I can't be bothered to follow the latest fad.

We'll see how long that lasts. Maybe at some point the telcos and phone makers will eventually get around to supporting RCS:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services

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