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In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

economist.com

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Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#21

Post by unmole »

InfinityByTen wrote: post #19

BBC and Al-Jazeera are alleged to have used footage from inside POK and claiming it as from Srinagar. Also clips from within Kashmir valley have no evidence of protest against the revoked bills, rather a generic call for "Azadi"(Freedom). It is not clear if the protest is representation of ground reality.[Reference sadly only in Hindi, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV5w1BQCzi0 ] Also the other protest accepted by I…

> BBC and Al-Jazeera are alleged to have used footage from inside POK and claiming it as from Srinagar.

This is bullshit. Even the Home Ministry has walked back from the There were no protests line. Source: https://www.newslaundry.com/2019/08/14/the-truth-about-bbc-a...

Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#22

Post by awadheshv »

icsllaf wrote: post #16
whydoyoucare wrote: post #15

Unfortunately, the issue requires a significant historical context, which is carefully stripped from most of these media articles to control the narrative. :-/

Do you really need context when a country is stripping its citizens of the right of communication, movement, and religion?

Is it justified to temporarily suspend rights/privileges of 100 people to stop some 2 people from creating a situation where 2 other people lose their lives?

kashmir has been a breeding ground for islamic terrorists from quite some time now. some consider it an achievement that there has not been any loss of life (as a result of recent restrictions). there are vested political interest at work from all sides involved and nobody cares about anybodys rights.

Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#23

Post by andonisus »

icsllaf wrote: post #20
andonisus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes?

I disagree and say that when human rights are removed, it doesn't matter what the context is. 1. Terrorists deserve the same human rights as normal people. 2. The removal of liberties is extended upon all citizens making this province an open air jail. The fact that the situation in Kashmir changed so rapidly as well doesn't bode well for the reasoning behind this crackdown as well.

The question was not if having context justifies the action, but rather if having context helps better understand the reasons this happened.

Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#24

Post by icsllaf »

awadheshv wrote: post #22
icsllaf wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really need context when a country is stripping its citizens of the right of communication, movement, and religion?

Is it justified to temporarily suspend rights/privileges of 100 people to stop some 2 people from creating a situation where 2 other people lose their lives? kashmir has been a breeding ground for islamic terrorists from quite some time now. some consider it an achievement that there has not been any loss of life (as a result of recent restrictions). there are vested political interest at work from all sides involved…

The question should have one added word.

>Is it justified to temporarily suspend rights/privileges of 100 innocent people

Which the answer is always no. Saying otherwise opens the door to more police state factors encroaching upon the rights of the others. The same thing is happening in Xinjiang against innocent muslims there and in no case is unlawful detention without reasoning ever justified.

Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#25

Post by ignoramous »

InfinityByTen wrote: post #19

BBC and Al-Jazeera are alleged to have used footage from inside POK and claiming it as from Srinagar. Also clips from within Kashmir valley have no evidence of protest against the revoked bills, rather a generic call for "Azadi"(Freedom). It is not clear if the protest is representation of ground reality.[Reference sadly only in Hindi, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV5w1BQCzi0 ] Also the other protest accepted by I…

I think you would agree that you're assessing the situation with a whole lot of bias.

> Lockdown in a terrorist, separatist and rebel location is a security measure more than a curbing of Freedom of speech

This is harsh. One could equally argue that the Hindustani and Pakistani governments are terrorizing the Kashmir valley, with their security measures and counter-measures. There's more to this issue than misplaced nationalism with countless layers and nuances, though, I agree it is in India's interest to deal with the Kashmir dispute in a way it sees fit and call it a day, since the agreed plebiscite isn't acceptable to it, at all.

Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#26

Post by awadheshv »

icsllaf wrote: post #24
awadheshv wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it justified to temporarily suspend rights/privileges of 100 people to stop some 2 people from creating a situation where 2 other people lose their lives? kashmir has been a breeding ground for islamic terrorists from quite some time now. some consider it an achievement that there has not been any loss of life (as a result of recent restrictions). there are vested political interest at work from all sides involved…

The question should have one added word. >Is it justified to temporarily suspend rights/privileges of 100 innocent people Which the answer is always no. Saying otherwise opens the door to more police state factors encroaching upon the rights of the others. The same thing is happening in Xinjiang against innocent muslims there and in no case is unlawful detention without reasoning ever justified.

you missed my point - rights went down the drain a long time ago.

Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#27

Post by dragonwriter »

InfinityByTen wrote: post #19

BBC and Al-Jazeera are alleged to have used footage from inside POK and claiming it as from Srinagar. Also clips from within Kashmir valley have no evidence of protest against the revoked bills, rather a generic call for "Azadi"(Freedom). It is not clear if the protest is representation of ground reality.[Reference sadly only in Hindi, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV5w1BQCzi0 ] Also the other protest accepted by I…

> Lockdown in a terrorist, separatist and rebel location is a security measure more than a curbing of Freedom of speech.

It's curbing freedom of speech just as much if it is a security measure. The pretext, however valid it might be, doesn't alter the essential character of the act. Of course, calling a location “terrorist, separatist, and rebel” because there happen to be terrorists, separatists, and/or rebels in it, and using that to justify suppressive policy targeting the region as a whole is a sure sign of the mindset of—even if the suppressive policies don't yet reach the level of—collective punishment, a war crime in the context of interstate war and a crime against humanity otherwise.

Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#28

Post by MiroF »

InfinityByTen wrote: post #19

BBC and Al-Jazeera are alleged to have used footage from inside POK and claiming it as from Srinagar. Also clips from within Kashmir valley have no evidence of protest against the revoked bills, rather a generic call for "Azadi"(Freedom). It is not clear if the protest is representation of ground reality.[Reference sadly only in Hindi, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV5w1BQCzi0 ] Also the other protest accepted by I…

Hackernews always has such a strong pro-Modi bias. I wonder why that is because it doesn't seem to be the case on any other social media like this one.

Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#29

Post by PeterisP »

awadheshv wrote: post #22
icsllaf wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really need context when a country is stripping its citizens of the right of communication, movement, and religion?

Is it justified to temporarily suspend rights/privileges of 100 people to stop some 2 people from creating a situation where 2 other people lose their lives? kashmir has been a breeding ground for islamic terrorists from quite some time now. some consider it an achievement that there has not been any loss of life (as a result of recent restrictions). there are vested political interest at work from all sides involved…

I'd say that it's justified if and only if that community fof 100 people agrees to willingly suspend these rights and liberties (the word 'privileges' isn't appropriate here) because they consider that it's for a good cause that they support.

But if you come in from the capital and take away their rights from innocent people (i.e. anyone other than the "2" you mention in your example) without the consent of that community, then that's evil oppresion - and the factors you mention are weak excuses, they certainly are not valid justification for that.

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