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In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

economist.com

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Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#11

Post by Udo »

Yetanfou wrote: post #6
shuaib wrote: post #3

Will there be a time when in the modern world, no territory will be forcefully occupied? Or do homosapiens lack the mental maturity to reach that point in their evolution?

Homo Sapiens has evolved to the currently dominant species partly due to its tendency to conquer and subdue - others of the same species, other species or the landscape. If Homo Sapiens were to reach this "mental maturity" it would most likely stagnate and, eventually, make space for another species to rise in its place. War and strife may lead to suffering and loss but they also provide a huge impetus to innovate on…

> Homo Sapiens has evolved to the currently dominant species partly due to its tendency to conquer and subdue

GP asked whether it was in the cards to have a world where no territory is forcefully occupied. No forceful occupation means that the people who live in a region get a say in choosing their government. Nobody is really arguing we cede Kashmir to a competing species.

> If Homo Sapiens were to reach this "mental maturity" it would most likely stagnate and, eventually, make space for another species to rise in its place.

Are you arguing that science and other problem solving strategies at peace are dooming the species to extinction, and that only war and suffering can ensure our continued existence and progress?

Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#12

Post by valarauko »

bobosha wrote: post #10
ignoramous wrote: post #4

The Kashmir issue is an impasse. Neither will Pakistan relent its stake, nor will India relinquish its position any further and unfortunately the Kashmiris aren't going to get their freedom from either of these nuclear superpowers, at least not without a lot of pain (they have been subject to too much, already). The blood-shed and injustice is simply not fair, and it can't go on forever. Despite autonomy granted by P…

Absolutely correct. The Kashmiris deserve peace and quiet, the closest both sides came to an agreement was ca. 2003 between Vajpayee and Musharraf. Unfortunately the stakes are too high for India to give up this strategic place.

I think whatever strategic value Kashmir had to India is greatly outweighed by its emotional value - much like Pakistan.

For India, Kashmir has been an enormous drain on its resources, both financially & in lives lost. To accept that muslim Kashmiris are somehow distinct from other Indians is to revive the Two Nation Theory that tore the subcontinent apart, and flies in the face of the lived experience of the multitude of diverse peoples who coexist in relative peace in India.

The supposed secret deal that Vajpayee & Musharraf had agreed to was to finalize the Line of Control as the International Border, permanently bifircating Kashmir between the two. I doubt it would have found much support in either country, if the plans had been public.

Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#13

Post by fromreddit »

Some relevant Wikipedia links

1- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya

2 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_non-Islamic_pl...

3 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazwa-e-Hind

4 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya

5 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubal

6 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_(Islam)

7 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khilafat_Movement

8 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus

9 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleed_India_with_a_Thousand_...

10 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_explo...

11 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Relationship_with_Muha...

12 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam

Please read all of these wiki links in detail and think about each of them.

I have not put any news/oped/ links.

Nor am I putting anything of my own.

The western world needs to know what is coming for them, I am not saying that what is coming for them is good or bad, but it's coming.

Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#14

Post by onyb »

shuaib wrote: post #3

Will there be a time when in the modern world, no territory will be forcefully occupied? Or do homosapiens lack the mental maturity to reach that point in their evolution?

It's also useful to point out that Kashmir was neither a part of India nor Pakistan after independence from the British in 1947.

It was only after Pakistan launched an operation to capture Kashmir, that the then ruler of Kashmir signed an "Instrument of Accession" with India, in exchange for military assistance.

Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#16

Post by icsllaf »

whydoyoucare wrote: post #15

Unfortunately, the issue requires a significant historical context, which is carefully stripped from most of these media articles to control the narrative. :-/

Do you really need context when a country is stripping its citizens of the right of communication, movement, and religion?

Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#17

Post by andonisus »

icsllaf wrote: post #16
whydoyoucare wrote: post #15

Unfortunately, the issue requires a significant historical context, which is carefully stripped from most of these media articles to control the narrative. :-/

Do you really need context when a country is stripping its citizens of the right of communication, movement, and religion?

Yes?

Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#18

Post by chewbacha »

m0llusk wrote: post #9

Liberties are certainly an issue. By shutting down media and networks people are being stripped of their visibility. This is being done to avoid responsibility for currently actions being taken. Not being able to openly discuss what you are doing is a clear sign you shouldn't be doing that.

Wouldn’t freedom of assembly, speech, and press be grouped into liberties?

Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#19

Post by InfinityByTen »

BBC and Al-Jazeera are alleged to have used footage from inside POK and claiming it as from Srinagar. Also clips from within Kashmir valley have no evidence of protest against the revoked bills, rather a generic call for "Azadi"(Freedom). It is not clear if the protest is representation of ground reality.[Reference sadly only in Hindi, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV5w1BQCzi0]

Also the other protest accepted by India could be a different one altogether, hence pictured differently and was possibly an actual one which happened days after BBC released their video.

Lockdown in a terrorist, separatist and rebel location is a security measure more than a curbing of Freedom of speech. The region has been constitutionally provided for a democratic government, despite the split. This piece of information somehow passes through the crevices of fractured media into oblivion. China and Pakistan's stance is understandable since it is also a measure to tackle the Roadway China has been building through Pakistan to reach the ports and open up its trade routes. All of this with a funding of terrorism and extremism.

Re: In its struggle to subdue Kashmir, India is stripping it of liberties

#20

Post by icsllaf »

andonisus wrote: post #17
icsllaf wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really need context when a country is stripping its citizens of the right of communication, movement, and religion?

Yes?

I disagree and say that when human rights are removed, it doesn't matter what the context is.

1. Terrorists deserve the same human rights as normal people.

2. The removal of liberties is extended upon all citizens making this province an open air jail.

The fact that the situation in Kashmir changed so rapidly as well doesn't bode well for the reasoning behind this crackdown as well.

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