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At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

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Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#31

Post by walshemj »

bnt wrote: post #8

I think the article misses the point: are we now in an era where you actually expect to get stock when you join a company? As a former Toptal employee: IMHO the co-founder in question was widely regarded as a horrible manager, often pushing people to burnout and generally imposing a culture of secrecy and mistrust. The VPs they ousted were nothing better. I personally went through several burnouts while there, but al…

I would expect to get stock if I joined a FTSE 100 company, if not most of the FTSE 350 as well.

Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#33

Post by dsego »

bdcravens wrote: post #7
rahuldottech wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall seeing a comment of dang's wherein he mentions that this site regularly disabled paywalls for visitor coming from HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20708064 is the unpaywalled version.

I still get a paywall.

Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#34

Post by bilbo0s »

scarmig wrote: post #22
bilbo0s wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know man? Just Devil's Advocate here, but as an employee going into a startup it's kind of well known at this point that you're only likely to get what's written in black and white. Would you go to work for a company that promises to start paying you at "sometime in the future"? I kind of agree with WheelsAtLarge, you had to have known what you were getting into. Personally, I wouldn't work for someone for fr…

Whenever I talk to new grads, I tell them to value their equity compensation at zero for a small startup, for exactly that reason. But, it's similar to a lottery: you should expect to lose, but an organization can't run a lottery and pocket the winnings itself under the pretext everyone should have known they were throwing away their money.

But in this case the organization is pocketing the money because everyone joined the organization without being given any lottery tix at all. That's the issue.

The boss told them that they would get lottery tickets later, but only if a hypothetical third person showed up and gave the boss even more lottery tickets. My point is not that the hypothetical third person never showed up, which in and of itself meant that the employees wouldn't get lottery tickets. My point is that the employees should never have joined the company in the first place on the basis of such a ridiculous promise. It was entirely predictable that they would get none of the lottery tickets. No one is going to pay more than they have to, nor will they pay up after they have what they want out of you. Just ask any prostitute.

Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#36

Post by okmokmz »

scarmig wrote: post #18
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #13

I'm I missing something? It seems to me that everyone involved knew what they where getting into specially the investors. You hear about the cases where founders get screwed all the time. This is a case where a founder gets to keep his company. Good for him. I for one think it's a bit greedy after all he did not build the company all by himself but silicon valley investment is all about greed. It's just another day.

At the very least, he ran a scam on his employees, who he lured into the company with the promise of a big payoff if it became successful. If "everyone knew" what they were getting into, why did he feel the need to give them what amounts to monopoly money to convince them to work their asses off for him?

>lured into the company with the promise of a big payoff if it became successful.

Sounds par for the course for startups

Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#37

Post by sidlls »

jameslk wrote: post #30
coupdejarnac wrote: post #24

Is there anything about Toptal that isn't scummy?

Would love to know what you find scummy about them. I've been a freelancer in their network since 2014 and haven't found anything more egregious than any other agency from my dealings with them.

I briefly freelanced with them in 2014/2015 and I found it to be no better than E-lance or the like. They definitely didn't (at that time) do have any better clients, and they constantly pressured me to lower my rate (which I considered already to be low).

Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#38

Post by bdcravens »

1123581321 wrote: post #29
larrik wrote: post #23

How does he avoid it being a Sole Proprietorship and being on the hook personally for any lawsuits against it?

It’s still a separate legal entity. Sole proprietorship means there is no corporation, just a person doing business with their own assets and getting paid directly.

You can't just setup a corp and get immunity - that's a popular myth. There's many ways you can "pierce the corporate veil". However, as long as the company has officers, has all their paperwork in order, etc, it's a legit corp (regardless of how many investors there are)

Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#39

Post by jameslk »

sidlls wrote: post #37
jameslk wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would love to know what you find scummy about them. I've been a freelancer in their network since 2014 and haven't found anything more egregious than any other agency from my dealings with them.

I briefly freelanced with them in 2014/2015 and I found it to be no better than E-lance or the like. They definitely didn't (at that time) do have any better clients, and they constantly pressured me to lower my rate (which I considered already to be low).

I've had a few projects from them, one very large with a Bay Area client spanning a year. In the early days they would suggest a lower rate but now they change it to whatever I ask. I'm not sure what your rate is, but mine is competitive with Bay Area agency rates. Definitely better than Upwork (Elance) since I wouldn't be able to find the type of enterprisey clients I find on Toptal.

Re: At Booming Toptal, No Stock for Employees or Investors

#40

Post by ravitation »

bnt wrote: post #8

I think the article misses the point: are we now in an era where you actually expect to get stock when you join a company? As a former Toptal employee: IMHO the co-founder in question was widely regarded as a horrible manager, often pushing people to burnout and generally imposing a culture of secrecy and mistrust. The VPs they ousted were nothing better. I personally went through several burnouts while there, but al…

Compensated quite generously in an absolute sense, but relative to other early employees, who worked just as hard, at companies with similar current valuations and who did get equity? That seems unlikely.

Also, if I were an early employee at a startup, yes, I would expect equity.

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