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India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

nytimes.com

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Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#211

Post by iamshs »

vakataka wrote: post #202
iamshs wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hindus are also given subsidies for travel to their religious sites, inside India and to China. Mansarovar Lake and Amarnath pilgrimage. So that is one propaganda point of yours busted. Let's bust the second point: Why are only Muslim refugees being expelled, and why is there a specific citizenship law that gives Indian citizenship to Hindus and excludes Muslims?

That's a strawman argument. Even if what you say is true, are you proposing no communities other than minorities should get any perks? Also, do you have any reliable sources to back up your claims? Most of what you are saying seem to be just your opinions.

So why did you bring up subsidy as an argument for Muslims? Was that not a strawman?

Every single thing I said in this thread can be googled. Nothing in here is my opinion by an established fact. And facts can hurt because they ain't easy to counter. So go Google it, I ain't doing your homework for you.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#212

Post by sbmthakur »

iamshs wrote: post #203
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't understand how anyone who stands for gender equality and minority rights can support Kashmir being autonomous. This move by the Indian government is objectively good for minorities (Christians, Hindus, Jains etc) and women in the state. https://www.dailyo.in/voices/article-35a-women-in-kashmir-fu... Kashmir had 70 years to rectify this after Independence but to chose to double down on ethnic cleansing of mino…

Because gender equality and minority rights points are being used as a greenhorn to subjugate an entire minority. Article 370 giving them autonomy is gone, and not only their autonomy is gone but the state has been degraded as a Union Territory directly under Federal control. A law which has been abrogated by locking down 10 Million people, and not allowing them the right to protest. I think we all know why the law h…

Kashmir wasn't exactly a peaceful paradise before the abrogation of the article. Stone pelting was a regular affair and long term curfew has been enforced previously in 2008 and after Burhan Wani's death. The Federal Government has to ensure security of the people to prevent bloodshed.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#213

Post by iamshs »

eklavya wrote: post #208
iamshs wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hindus are also given subsidies for travel to their religious sites, inside India and to China. Mansarovar Lake and Amarnath pilgrimage. So that is one propaganda point of yours busted. Let's bust the second point: Why are only Muslim refugees being expelled, and why is there a specific citizenship law that gives Indian citizenship to Hindus and excludes Muslims?

"Why are only Muslim refugees being expelled, and why is there a specific citizenship law that gives Indian citizenship to Hindus and excludes Muslims?" That bill deals with religious oppression in the neighbouring countries in India (mostly legacy of partition). Are muslims being oppressed in the islamic neighbouring countries?

Rohingyas are genuine refugees that have been oppressed. That bill codifies that Muslims cannot be oppressed, which is a patently false observation that a supposedly secular country should not have to resolve to.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#214

Post by vakataka »

iamshs wrote: post #211
vakataka wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a strawman argument. Even if what you say is true, are you proposing no communities other than minorities should get any perks? Also, do you have any reliable sources to back up your claims? Most of what you are saying seem to be just your opinions.

So why did you bring up subsidy as an argument for Muslims? Was that not a strawman? Every single thing I said in this thread can be googled. Nothing in here is my opinion by an established fact. And facts can hurt because they ain't easy to counter. So go Google it, I ain't doing your homework for you.

I can say the same thing and just dismiss all your points. You are creating false equivalence between Hajj and amarnath. The Indian government controls all Hindu temples and derives revenue. So what is the problem in subsidizing these when the profit from these sites is used up within the country? On the other hand, Hajj spending goes out of the country and is a dead investment. And mind you, only Hindu institutions come under government purview by law. None of the minority institutions are touched.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#215

Post by sbmthakur »

iamshs wrote: post #11
statguy wrote: post #2

I think it is pretty clear that the Indian Government rushed into this because this is what their Hindu-nationalistic base wants - subdue the only Muslim Indian majority state. However, just like their ill-fated demonetization policy from 2016, they haven't given a whole lot of thought to what happens the day after. How long will they keep these restrictions? How far are they prepared to go if there is a mass uprisin…

Absolute repeat of what happened in 1984 against Sikhs in Punjab. Play by Play. This is just the start of worse for Kashmir unfortunately. The young ones are in for a brutal ride especially. And no one will listen, as they are not Upper caste Hindus.

I don't see any parallel. Khalistani separatism happened because Bhindranwale was propped by the Congress party to gain electoral giains. Who do you think the BJP has propped up now?

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#216

Post by iamshs »

amalag wrote: post #135
selimthegrim wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear that Janata party trying to get Jan Sangh people to resign their affiliations went over like a lead balloon in the seventies. BTW, Kashmiris liked them. RSS people can keep their membership and be called secular?

Hinduism is secular. Where have historically persecuted people of the world gone? To Hindu India. Indian Hindus are why Zorastrian people still exists as a religion. They had to flee Iran and Islamic domination hundreds of years ago. Hindu India has its share of casteism, which is a real problem. That I can agree with.

'Hinduism is secular.' followed by 'Hindu India'

How is religion even called secular? Secular pertains to character of a state, not of a religion.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#218

Post by eklavya »

iamshs wrote: post #213
eklavya wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why are only Muslim refugees being expelled, and why is there a specific citizenship law that gives Indian citizenship to Hindus and excludes Muslims?" That bill deals with religious oppression in the neighbouring countries in India (mostly legacy of partition). Are muslims being oppressed in the islamic neighbouring countries?

Rohingyas are genuine refugees that have been oppressed. That bill codifies that Muslims cannot be oppressed, which is a patently false observation that a supposedly secular country should not have to resolve to.

That would sure seem to be the case unless you see from where refugees are allowed. They are not allowed from all over the world, only areas dealing with partition or Indian history.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#219

Post by sbmthakur »

owaislone wrote: post #44
kobiguru wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preventative measures are necessary for the kind of thing it can spark. The change is not like demonetisation rather a well thought and long-held demand of the present government. It has been there in the election manifesto since they started publishing election manifesto. The new york times is entitled to its view on how India's elected government ought to run the country but that does not mean the government is goi…

> Preventative measures are necessary for the kind of thing it can spark. To prevent what exactly? Political dissent? Why can't people in Kashmir right now talk to each other over phone? Why can't they call their loved ones outside the region? Why isn't anyone else allowed to contact them? Why are lawyers, professors and activists being jailed? Why are some people not being allowed to leave the country? Why can't Ind…

> To prevent what exactly? Political dissent?

Listen to statements from Kashmiri leaders like Mehbooba Mufti and Omar Abdullah. They've routinely threatened violence over any attempt to the abrogation of the article. What do you think they would've done after the abrogation was anounced? And unlike other states, political dissent in Kashmir is not anywhere close to peaceful. It includes stone pelting , murdering policemen and what not.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#220

Post by [deleted] »

iamshs wrote: post #210
eklavya wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you are on hyper drive in the entire thread. When what how did you come to the conclusions from my post? What exactly made me a propagandist? You have got to be kidding with Sikh regiment being one of the most valiant branches of Indian Army and a really high number of Indian Army soldiers per capita from Punjab. There was Pakistan sponsored terrorism in Punjab, there isn't anymore. Also citation needed for ever…

I am countering propaganda, because this is personal for me. I cannot see an entire people silenced just because they are minorities, to be used to please the majority. And Sikh regiment officers and privates mutinied too when they heard of Indian Army attack on Darbar Sahib, Amritsar (Sikh Golden temple). India changed recruitment policies for these regiments soon after. Source: Understanding India's Counter-Rebelli…

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