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India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

nytimes.com

201–210 of 304 posts

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#201
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh what? Are you even aware of the history? Being independent has been their goal from day 1; that's the reason for the conflict. It's not because India has "mismanaged" Kashmir.

Staying away from hindu extremist dictatorship has been their goal and why they never conformed.

There was Hindu extremist dictatorship in 1947 when the conflict started? They originally wanted a separate country because they felt they are ethnically and culturally different to Indians. It didn’t become a religion issue until the 80s.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#202
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI, Indian Muslims have their own personal law while the rest of the population follows uniform civil code. They get Hajj subsidies and other perks that no other community gets. As for taking refugees, a country can deny entry based on any number of reasons. In 2018, the number of refugees taken in by the US has gone down. That doesn't mean US is less secular. I agree Indian constitution is not the most secular but…

Hindus are also given subsidies for travel to their religious sites, inside India and to China. Mansarovar Lake and Amarnath pilgrimage. So that is one propaganda point of yours busted. Let's bust the second point: Why are only Muslim refugees being expelled, and why is there a specific citizenship law that gives Indian citizenship to Hindus and excludes Muslims?

That's a strawman argument. Even if what you say is true, are you proposing no communities other than minorities should get any perks? Also, do you have any reliable sources to back up your claims? Most of what you are saying seem to be just your opinions.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#203
post #2

I think it is pretty clear that the Indian Government rushed into this because this is what their Hindu-nationalistic base wants - subdue the only Muslim Indian majority state. However, just like their ill-fated demonetization policy from 2016, they haven't given a whole lot of thought to what happens the day after. How long will they keep these restrictions? How far are they prepared to go if there is a mass uprisin…

I can't understand how anyone who stands for gender equality and minority rights can support Kashmir being autonomous. This move by the Indian government is objectively good for minorities (Christians, Hindus, Jains etc) and women in the state. https://www.dailyo.in/voices/article-35a-women-in-kashmir-fu... Kashmir had 70 years to rectify this after Independence but to chose to double down on ethnic cleansing of mino…

Because gender equality and minority rights points are being used as a greenhorn to subjugate an entire minority. Article 370 giving them autonomy is gone, and not only their autonomy is gone but the state has been degraded as a Union Territory directly under Federal control.

A law which has been abrogated by locking down 10 Million people, and not allowing them the right to protest. I think we all know why the law has been forced in.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#205
Wow. Matters always get heated up when J&K comes up. Folks, chill out. This is HN, not one of the toxic comment cesspools around the internet.

IMO, the removal of article 370 was a good move because:

- Article 370 was originally meant to be temporary. Central governments before the current one did not have the will, numbers and political spine to get it done.

- Kashmir, as it was, would have been fine if it was a progressive and developing state. Yes, it has developed compared what the situation was before, but give the amount of money that is poured in there per capita, compared to the rest of the country, is a lot! And it does not reach the people.

- The traditional Federal and State government model works decently well but it does not work with Kashmir and the local government could pick and choose only the new rules and amendments they liked. Anecdote: Kashmir government has a tenure of 6 years, the rest of India: 5 years. India had made that provision for a short time and was rolled back. Since it was more convenient for Kashmiri politicians, it was adopted and kept.

- Indian Supreme Court rulings did not always apply to Kashmir.

- The new Union Territory of Ladakh wanted to be so for a long time.

- Local politicians loved article 370. It gave them the autonomy to get more money and leverage to keep themselves in power. They often walked a diplomatic line so as to keep the money lines open from India and keep Pakistan engaged and enticed.

- Regional and religious Separatists thrives in J&K, often getting financed by Pakistan and inciting the people and youth in J&K. These money sources are being cut off since months now, slowing reducing the illicit finances to these activities.

- From what I have seen from interviews of locals, people are happy to angry about the change, while some are just unhappy with the ‘change’ as they had adapted to the conditions.

Now, about the way it was done: - the central government did the necessary groundwork to identify threats and risks. - recalled all tourists, pilgrims and out of state students from the area. - Sent in army platoons to maintain law and order situation. - clamped down on local leadership - took down the internet services - increases alertness along the Pakistan border.

Though I would personally hate to be in this situation, I think I understand and appreciate why it was done.

Absence of even some of the above measures would have resulted in the spread of massive misinformation or even propaganda and resulted in violent incidents on scale. Local politicians and separatists would be the ones to provoke this as removal of article 370 had a direct impact on their power and influence. The situation could have been dire and the same opposition parties would have been singing a different tune as to ‘why were adequate measures not taken’?

The restrictions are already being phased out and I hope the life for general population normalizes soon.

All this is done, but what next?

The removal of article 370 has had multiple challenges in the Supreme Court, so it has yet to be seen how it plays out. Also, there is a lot of work that needs to be done there in the coming years to win over the trust of the local populace. Security threats may increase - as it can be easily seen how unhappy Pakistan is with the removal of article 370. Those have to be tackled.

How this move actually works out depends on how the government tackles the upcoming hurdles, and J&K being a UT would certainly help them.

This is my opinion about the situation and the way it was tacked. Hope I am not downvoted into oblivion for this. Oh, well. :shrug:

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#206
post #72

Shopkeepers said that vital supplies like insulin and baby food, which they typically ordered online, were running out. Cash was scarce, as metal shutters covered the doors and windows of banks and A.T.M.s, which relied on the internet for every transaction. Doctors said they could not communicate with their patients. While nobody expects a war in their city, it's yet another example of why none of us should rely on…

At least not centralised cashless transactions. A mesh network using some kind of crypto is even better at avoiding government interference than cash.

Haha, cryptocurrencies are banned in India, anyone found dealing with them can be jailed up to 10 years.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#207
post #2

I think it is pretty clear that the Indian Government rushed into this because this is what their Hindu-nationalistic base wants - subdue the only Muslim Indian majority state. However, just like their ill-fated demonetization policy from 2016, they haven't given a whole lot of thought to what happens the day after. How long will they keep these restrictions? How far are they prepared to go if there is a mass uprisin…

That's false. Demonization is not relevant to any of this. Article 370 was a temporary provision in the Constitution. It's removal was on BJP's agenda since 80s. India's founding founders like B.R. Ambedkar were also somewhat against having seperate set of rules for J&K. The most likely reason for it's removal is that Article 370 still protected regressive practices like Triple Talaq and Child marriage and created a beaurocratic roadblock in implementation of Federal Government schemes(like reservation).

The claim that this was done to subvert state's Muslim majority doesn't hold merit. India has states like Punjab, Nagaland and Mizoram which don't have Hindu majority and are still doing well.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#208
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI, Indian Muslims have their own personal law while the rest of the population follows uniform civil code. They get Hajj subsidies and other perks that no other community gets. As for taking refugees, a country can deny entry based on any number of reasons. In 2018, the number of refugees taken in by the US has gone down. That doesn't mean US is less secular. I agree Indian constitution is not the most secular but…

Hindus are also given subsidies for travel to their religious sites, inside India and to China. Mansarovar Lake and Amarnath pilgrimage. So that is one propaganda point of yours busted. Let's bust the second point: Why are only Muslim refugees being expelled, and why is there a specific citizenship law that gives Indian citizenship to Hindus and excludes Muslims?

"Why are only Muslim refugees being expelled, and why is there a specific citizenship law that gives Indian citizenship to Hindus and excludes Muslims?"

That bill deals with religious oppression in the neighbouring countries in India (mostly legacy of partition). Are muslims being oppressed in the islamic neighbouring countries?

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#209
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it is pretty clear that the Indian Government rushed into this because this is what their Hindu-nationalistic base wants - subdue the only Muslim Indian majority state. Abrogation of Kashmir's special status has been a top agenda of the BJP for the past few decades. They are pretty big on "national unity", and they see the special status for Kashmir as going against this principle. They want Kashmir fully i…

You know what else has been a top agenda for BJP? Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan. That is, single language, single religion, single nation. BJP is a Hindu Nationalist party, and just because it is in their manifesto doesn’t mean it should have been fulfilled. The question to ask is, why is in their manifesto when there are other regions in India with similar laws? It is in their manifesto because Kashmir is a Muslim majorit…

> You know what else has been a top agenda for BJP? Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan. That is, single language, single religion, single nation.

BJP's top leadership includes Modi, Amit Shah, Nirmala Sitaraman, Venkaiah Naidu, Nitin Gadkari etc. that come from non-Hindi states. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Re: India Shut Down Kashmir’s Internet Access

#210
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indian Army's official publication, Baatcheet, asked for "Sikhs to be reported to authorities as they are dangerous criminals" in 1990. After such a blanket generalisation, Sikhs were indeed reported to authorities, and killed extra-judiciously. Mothers came to know what happened to their sons through newspapers replete with a photo of a cop getting bounty alongside the article branding her son as a militant. Just la…

Wow, you are on hyper drive in the entire thread. When what how did you come to the conclusions from my post? What exactly made me a propagandist? You have got to be kidding with Sikh regiment being one of the most valiant branches of Indian Army and a really high number of Indian Army soldiers per capita from Punjab. There was Pakistan sponsored terrorism in Punjab, there isn't anymore. Also citation needed for ever…

I am countering propaganda, because this is personal for me. I cannot see an entire people silenced just because they are minorities, to be used to please the majority.

And Sikh regiment officers and privates mutinied too when they heard of Indian Army attack on Darbar Sahib, Amritsar (Sikh Golden temple). India changed recruitment policies for these regiments soon after.

Source: Understanding India's Counter-Rebellion Strategies during the Punjab Crisis - Philip Hultquist

See in all the glory how Indian Government victimized Sikhs, and blatantly Indian Army asked for Sikhs to be reported to authorities, as they are dangerous people who commit arson and murder.

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