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Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

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Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most large video makers these days get pathetic amounts of ad revenue (less than $100 for a video with a few million views) and instead are making a vast amount more on patreon or similar sites. Its those creators that have the most to gain at an alternate site, the restrictions of youtube are all downsides, and they receive no money directly from it, the only real upside youtube offers is audience reach.

Off by an order of magnitude on ad revenue, more like several thousand $ per million views.

I'd be interested to see a source for either of these claims. I've always wondered what the revenue was like for varying amounts of views.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#82
post #72

Fundamentally I think the problem is that these platforms are not neutral, when YouTube's algorithm hoists your video to the front page they are "manipulating" the system. Personally, I would not be surprised to see Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act challenged on this notion and it as the basis for other challenges. Internet providers just serve bits, any effort to "manipulate" those bits based on who is…

It is pretty obvious that things like search results are manipulated to fit an agenda. Search Google Images for "white american family" and "black american family" and compare the results. You can replace "black american family" with indian or any other group and the results are similar.

There are many interracial couples under "white american family" and none under "black american family". The only way I can explain this is there is manipulation of the algorithm to fit a certain perspective.

I don't think there is anything wrong with interracial families but I do think it is concerning that our search results are being subtly manipulated like this without most people knowing.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most large video makers these days get pathetic amounts of ad revenue (less than $100 for a video with a few million views) and instead are making a vast amount more on patreon or similar sites. Its those creators that have the most to gain at an alternate site, the restrictions of youtube are all downsides, and they receive no money directly from it, the only real upside youtube offers is audience reach.

Off by an order of magnitude on ad revenue, more like several thousand $ per million views.

That was true perhaps a few years ago, it isn't anymore.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#84

I don't see how this would work. Creators are from all across the world and many of them have to deal with wildly different issues due to a differing legal system. Furthermore, being a youtuber isn't something that's clearly defined either, because there are many that create content for a bit and then never create content again.

This is a solved problem, many unions are international. The AFL-CIO is the largest federation of unions in the US and is international.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#85
post #14
post #2

If that's the case, 99% will be booted off the platform and they will have to meet certain numbers of visitors and engagement every month, or lose their job..which is what unionizing means. If I were google, I would also get control of their users (they would now be the companys) and youtubers will no longer be able move to any other platform while working for Google. You can't expect the freedom of running your own…

If you run a business and your solvency depends on the existence of another, larger business, you're not as independent as the title of 'business owner' alludes. How many HN posts have we seen over the years of businesses based on Amazon, Twitter, Apple getting blown the fuck up because the mothership restricted an API, copied their project or changed a ToS? I'm not putting in an opinion on anything else in your post…

"If you run a business and your solvency depends on the existence of another, larger business, you're not as independent as the title of 'business owner' alludes."

My point is that Youtubers can start their own sites and go elsewhere if they get tired of a large company controlling their content.

Unionization usually means they will now need to be paid a 'fair wage' and benefits..and your relationship changes to more of an employee..with more restrictions on what you can do.

Youtube also won't pay everyone as an employee and less people will be able to actually make money on the platform due to these restrictions.

"I like seeing alternative viewpoints"

This is is kind of crazy when you think about it: Independent business is now considered an 'alternative viewpoint' here on HN..a site dedicated to hackers, startups, and the tech business.

My guess is that the majority here work for large companies and really don't care about (or have even tried) running a business/startup.

"Since you're for retaliation against a bunch of people who dare try and organize around their shared pain points. I just can't do it this time!"

I'm not for retaliation, I'm just pointing out the unintended consequences.

"Fighting against a power that exploits you without representation? That's boston-tea-party as shit"

Everything isn't deserving of a 'revolution'. If so, I would have started a revolution against HN years ago. I can't even have intellectual discussions, without scared users down voting my comments..because someone might be convinced of a different view point.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#86

What they should do is collectively take their content somewhere else. As an aside, I'm seeing the same pattern at Amazon. People thought they were opening a business on amazon selling retail. Then amazon started selling the profitable products themselves, storing the products themselves, ... basically doing more and more of the work and taking more control and taking money from the people who helped them become powe…

> Ebay? The flea market of the internet? You disregard ebay but ebay actually has economic alignment with its sellers. The buyer experience isn't as good as Amazon's, but the seller experience is better in that you can control your destiny more. But this apparently makes it a flea market? There's going to be a tradeoff between curation and producer freedom. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

There's going to be a tradeoff between curation and producer freedom. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I think the above is one of the key takeaways from the collective experience of the 20-teens! In a way, it's a summary of the whole history of the Internet.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#87

What they should do is collectively take their content somewhere else. As an aside, I'm seeing the same pattern at Amazon. People thought they were opening a business on amazon selling retail. Then amazon started selling the profitable products themselves, storing the products themselves, ... basically doing more and more of the work and taking more control and taking money from the people who helped them become powe…

> What they should do is collectively take their content somewhere else. This will have almost no effect. YouTube does not have a quantity problem. They have enough content that every YouTube user could watch YouTube 24 hours a day for the rest of their lives and never see the same video twice. They wouldn't even have to go deep into their back catalog. Worse, viewers have relatively little attachment to any particul…

By that logic who needs YouTube when we can stare at the endless content of clouds moving in the sky.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#88
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never understood the need to take away the ability for someone to truly run their own business and have freedoms and restrict it down to a corporate job, by law. They obviously feel that it balances in their favor, in the sense that as of right now they are unable to "truly run their own business" while they are at the whims of monetization and censorship policies that seemingly change on a dime, with no recourse…

The important question, which according to the article the union won't disclose, is how many people are included in "they". Is this something that Youtubers in general are rallying behind, or is IG Metall just trying to bully Youtube and advance its own interests?

All unions bully large corporations to advance their own interests. The auto unions, for instance, had leaders that were getting multi-million dollar bonuses for decades..and probably still to this day.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most large video makers these days get pathetic amounts of ad revenue (less than $100 for a video with a few million views) and instead are making a vast amount more on patreon or similar sites. Its those creators that have the most to gain at an alternate site, the restrictions of youtube are all downsides, and they receive no money directly from it, the only real upside youtube offers is audience reach.

Off by an order of magnitude on ad revenue, more like several thousand $ per million views.

If you look up "how much I make on youtube" videos you can see creator's dashboards to give you some evidence. The answer is that it varies vastly depending on audience, county, topic and advertiser's interest.

"$0.25 to $4" $ per thousand views -- https://techwiser.com/how-much-can-you-make-from-youtube/

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#90

I wonder why the Screen Actors Guild (SAG) hasn't weighed in on this whole sector at all. The exploitation of entertainers is not exactly a new issue, and it has been tackled by existing unions before.

SAG-AFTRA has weighed in on this issue, both to the press[1] and on their website[2].

From their site:

> Do you create your own content on YouTube or other social media platforms?

> If a brand reaches out to promote their product (paid or product trade) on your platform, that is a commercial and SAG-AFTRA can have your back.

> SAG-AFTRA covers advertisements on all platforms. Get fair compensation, access to health insurance and a team of experts making sure you are PAID!

[1] https://www.tubefilter.com/2018/08/15/sag-aftra-content-crea...

[2] https://www.sagaftra.org/get-involved/ads-go-union/creators-...

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