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Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

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Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#51
post #11

There's a lot to be said for this line of argument. The stupidity of the Youtube recommendation engine has wrecked Brazilian politics, for example: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/11/world/americas/youtube-br... (The deliberate construction of an AI that pays people to produce lies to damage other people's health and welfare sounds like a farfetched science fiction plot. Accidentally building one, and then trying to…

I think it is worth pointing out that a lot of this, 'artificial stupidity' is simply a problem of scale. People may think of Google as a leading Ai company and in many respects that is true, but is so many others it is not. When Google utilizes a model it has to work across billions of users where the margins are tiny on each user, the models have to be damn simple. The industry has far better than what Google offers in most cases but because of Google's scale, stupidity is all they can afford.

Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#52
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy was never intended to work. It's just better than the alternatives over the long run.

"Republics decline into democracies and democracies degenerate into despotisms" -Aristotle

Aristotle also believed that some men were supposed to be slaves and that women held no intellectual value. So he can be wrong about things too.

Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#53
post #11

There's a lot to be said for this line of argument. The stupidity of the Youtube recommendation engine has wrecked Brazilian politics, for example: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/11/world/americas/youtube-br... (The deliberate construction of an AI that pays people to produce lies to damage other people's health and welfare sounds like a farfetched science fiction plot. Accidentally building one, and then trying to…

YouTube recommendations feel like a direct impediment to democracy. When your recommendations consist of the same crap all the time, it may seem as though that stuff carries more weight than it really does. I wonder to what degree YouTube is responsible for the current political climate. The same with Twitter really. When you only follow and see posts from people you choose, how are you supposed to give important iss…

Democracy work just fine. It might not what you want but what if the current youtube recommendation system is what I want ? In democracy people like me should still get equal power to decide. There are no right or wrong outcome in democracy.

Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#54
post #11

There's a lot to be said for this line of argument. The stupidity of the Youtube recommendation engine has wrecked Brazilian politics, for example: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/11/world/americas/youtube-br... (The deliberate construction of an AI that pays people to produce lies to damage other people's health and welfare sounds like a farfetched science fiction plot. Accidentally building one, and then trying to…

NYTimes is a very biased, liberal source. Every time an election doesn't go as planned, as in right-wing parties win, media such as NYTimes or Washington Post blame it on Youtube/Facebook/AI and everything else, as if a person couldn't rationally vote for right-wing policies and political parties.

Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#55
post #42
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"no doubt" and "may" are two words that contradict one another. Clearly whoever wrote that has no idea what they are talking about.

I disagree. They've constructed a sentence that will always be true by using the weasel word "may" and the emphatic "no doubt." I have no doubt that one day someone may win big at poker in a casino. Someone may; or they may not - of this I have no doubt.

Technically the sentence could be falsified if we ever managed to formally prove that AI can never become more intelligent than humans.

Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#56
A lot of what we call AI these days (especially neural network stuff) should really be called "artificial knee-jerk reactions". A neural network trained to detect traffic lights is 'intelligent' only insofar as your leg is 'intelligent' when it involuntarily kicks in response to a tap on the knee. Of course, automating a knee-jerk reaction in response to traffic lights can still be extremely useful (say, for self-driving cars). But there's no contemplation involved, no thinking, no deliberation---no intelligence.

Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I keep on hearing AI claimed as an extinction level threat yet never has an actual mechanism been given - just a pile of tropes taken as dogma." I believe that is the point I'm making: by digitizing the human experience and optimizing certain easily-optimized chains of thought, you will never see the mechanism; nor will I. There is no mechanism in the sense you seem to be asking for. This is a preponderance of the e…

what you're spouting is just religion all over again. There will always be a certain segment of the population that are into drugs, into religion, into politics, into the mindless entertainment provided by youtube, ad nauseum. But it will never be all of humanity, or even most of humanity. The trash still needs to be collected, the electricity still needs to be generated, the food still needs to be made and distribut…

No, I'm not. Religion is a formalized system of causality about things we do not understand: the sky god wants us to eat grapes, we do not eat grapes, there are floods, therefore we must eat more grapes. It's not wrong or right, it's non-rational.

Religions know how things work, you just can't reason with them. I'm arguing from ignorance: we cannot know. My only additional point is that not only can we not know, we can not know in a billion different scenarios. Odds are many of these scenarios will work out poorly. That's the only "point of faith" my argument calls for. It seems to me to be a reasonable thing to believe.

You seem to feel that this will be a disastrous thing. It's interesting to me how people who don't see problems with AI keep insisting that there must be some huge, horrible result. If there were, as you point out, people wouldn't do it.

You also seem to assume that I'm making some sort of moral value judgment. That's interesting to me as a drug-legalization, open-borders libertarian. I wonder what sorts of morals I am supposed to be having?

No morals or religion is required to understand my argument. We humans work as best we can in various-sized social groups based on each of our understandings of cause-and-effect, as flawed as it all is. If we change that in a massive way, the obvious conclusion is that we cannot continue to reason about the results, not that they would be morally good or bad. Then, it logically follows that for whatever definition of good or bad you have, moral, utilitarian, whatnot, there's going to be a lot of bad things happen for which our society has no prior experience. That doesn't seem workable to me.

We gotta stop expecting these arguments to play out in some grand fashion. Boundless optimism vs. religious fear might be a great plot for a movie, but it's highly doubtful the future is going to play out like that at all.

Re: Do we need to worry about artificial stupidity?

#60
I can't blame Youtube, or any social media here at all. The enemy here is ignorance which is the root enabler for spreading this garbage. The only way to fix that is via education. Good luck. A well educated populace that thinks for itself is less profitable because you can't sell them a line of bullshit. And you wonder why education budgets are under attack.

Another issue is how we humans emotionally relate education with self worth in society. Ignorant people don't like to be called ignorant. Educated people telling them they need to be smarter is insulting. So there is a tendency to distrust educated people because the ignorant persons perception is that educated people think they are bad or broken and need to be fixed. If they don't feel bad or broken then there must be something more to this, why are we being manipulated... (conspiracy can then take over)

So perhaps we should rethink how to approach the problem and realize that ignorant impressionable people are a given. Instead of trying to fight propaganda with education we should disguise education as easy to digest propaganda. Don't fight fiction with facts because you're always going to lose. Just start your own propaganda machine and hope you can out smart the stupid. Sure it's manipulation but how much longer can educated people stay righteous while the world is being burned down around them by the ignorant?

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