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Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

nytimes.com

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Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#131

Post by stefan_ »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #122
stefan_ wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every "use of the military in anger" in history involves massing your forces at strategic borders. That is just War 101.

Okay, but given that the army hasn't attacked anyone as of right now, what term would you consider appropriate to describe the "drills"?

There is a term for this: mobilization. It's a bit more dramatic, of course, in wars past, but the concept remains the same:

> Poland partly mobilized its troops on August 24, 1939, and fully mobilized on August 30, 1939, following the increased confrontations with Germany since March 1939. On September 1, 1939 Germany invaded Poland, which prompted both France and Britain to declare war on Germany.

> On 30 August, the Polish Navy sent its destroyer flotilla to Britain, executing the Peking Plan. On the same day, Marshal of Poland Edward Rydz-Śmigły announced the mobilization of Polish troops. However, he was pressured into revoking the order by the French, who apparently still hoped for a diplomatic settlement, failing to realize that the Germans were fully mobilized and concentrated at the Polish border.

Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#132

Post by polotics »

joelx wrote: post #117
JohnStrangeII wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that readers of the New York Times would need some kind of paternalist guideline on which side to choose in this conflict is quite hilarious. The NY Times is reporting on the issue, and there are two sides to it, the line of the Chinese government and the line of the protesters. I really don't think there is any doubt among NY Times readers as to which of the two value systems they support, and if there was,…

I agree with this comment. What's strange is Fox News seems to not be reporting at all on the HK protests?

I guess Fox doesn't want to annoy its favourite audience member.

Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#133

Post by acd10j »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #129
acd10j wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it was killed, There are no upvotes or downvotes , It is just at bottom of the comment thread. That being said SCMP might still have some people who are editorially independent now. But I don’t think They would want to push their luck too far. Considering Alibaba group can face consequences of same in Mainland

The post was likely dead at the time the GP posted, and later some people vouched for the post to bring it back to life.

Can @dang confirm it , that it was dead due to downvotes or some bug. I do not see any downvotes or upvotes. You may be right but I Cannot confirm it.

Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#134

Post by Wowfunhappy »

acd10j wrote: post #133
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post was likely dead at the time the GP posted, and later some people vouched for the post to bring it back to life.

Can @dang confirm it , that it was dead due to downvotes or some bug. I do not see any downvotes or upvotes. You may be right but I Cannot confirm it.

Fyi, you can only ever see upvotes on your own posts.

Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#135

Post by nugga »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #128
nugga wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you qualify what constitutes a part of the country though? A whole lot of land changing hands and being conquered by force happened throughout the world's history. I wonder how much of that unity sentiment is/was constructed and pushed on by leadership due to the area around current China being littered with competing kingdoms and a lot of internal strife and disarray throughout its history, not just the past…

Hong Kong was not the only port grabbed by foreign powers. There was also Macau, Xiamen, Shanghai, Tianjin, Dalian, Qingdao... I might forget others. It's trying to push a narrative to argue what is part of the country...

The 'narrative' on the international stage often times seems to be might is right. Cute mythological stories hardly change that.

Almost everything we appear to hold so dear and immutable or self evident seems kinda arbitrary depending on how far back you go and whether you consider yourself part of this team or that.

Nationalism or tribalism is a whole lot of make believe, is what I'm saying.

Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#138

Post by echaozh »

loyukfai wrote: post #44
mytailorisrich wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, for Chinese these territorial issues are bigger that the Communist Party. In Western countries they would be called "bi-partisan" or "cross-parties" because there is a national consensus on them.

Am not so sure about this, the current emphasis on "territorial integrity" is IMO as much, if not more of, a result of PRC propaganda as established on any historical basis.

No. 900 years ago, a Chinese general tried to take back land from northern nomads and got killed.[0] And he was honored for 9 centuries in the country, even by Qing emperors who themselves were decendants of the northern nomads. In Hangzhou, there was a temple built for him.

7 and a half centuries before Yue Fei, there were Liu Yu[1]. 100 years before him there was Zu Ti. They both tried to fight northern nomads, and were remembered till this day due to their success.

Unification of the nation IS in the genes of the people. There is no question of that.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yue_Fei [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Wu_of_Liu_Song

Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#139

Post by joelx »

Aeolun wrote: post #81

> “How do you think Beijing will think now?” he added. “Do you think they will want to give democracy to people when people are insulting their rule?” What do you think Beijing thought before? What a good boy you were being? Beijing doesn’t want to give you democracy regardless of what you are doing. Now they just have to be way more overt about it.

Beijing will slaughter these protesters eventually either in public or secretly. We have an absolute moral imperative to give everyone in Hong Kong the option to evacuate to a free country.

Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#140

Post by loyukfai »

echaozh wrote: post #138
loyukfai wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am not so sure about this, the current emphasis on "territorial integrity" is IMO as much, if not more of, a result of PRC propaganda as established on any historical basis.

No. 900 years ago, a Chinese general tried to take back land from northern nomads and got killed.[0] And he was honored for 9 centuries in the country, even by Qing emperors who themselves were decendants of the northern nomads. In Hangzhou, there was a temple built for him. 7 and a half centuries before Yue Fei, there were Liu Yu[1]. 100 years before him there was Zu Ti. They both tried to fight northern nomads, and…

>Unification of the nation IS in the genes of the people. There is no question of that.

Citation needed.

Cherry picked facts are not universal truth...

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