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Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

nytimes.com

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Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#121

Post by torstenvl »

qwsxyh wrote: post #110
torstenvl wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your objection. Are you claiming there's a hidden third side to the dispute? Or that the controversy is fabricated and there is, in fact, only one side? It seems clear to me that there are indeed exactly "two sides." It is also clear that their relationship is now more contentious, and less symbiotic. What exactly is your disagreement with those propositions?

The wording is clearly implying there are two valid sides, when there is not. The protestors are the valid side and they do not need to give a shit about the opinion of the CCP about full integration.

Be careful when you assume you know what someone else's words "clearly imply[]."

Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#122

Post by Wowfunhappy »

stefan_ wrote: post #76
9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are literally drills: nobody is getting shot in Shenzhen. Of course the drills are sabre-rattling, a show of force intended to send a message, and preparation for a future assault if necessary -- but they're still drills, not use of the military in anger.

Every "use of the military in anger" in history involves massing your forces at strategic borders. That is just War 101.

Okay, but given that the army hasn't attacked anyone as of right now, what term would you consider appropriate to describe the "drills"?

Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#123

Post by twhitmore »

Everybody, this is a dangerous time. APCs are massing in Shenzhen (see other thread).

Now is the time to email your local Chinese embassy. Carrie Lam, the top HK politician. Michael Tien and Ronnie Wong, leading pro-establishment politicians. Let them know dialogue & political solutions are needed, violence is not acceptable, and that PEOPLE ARE WATCHING AND CARE.

Mention any connections to China you have. Your voice can make a difference to the political calculus. But time is very short. Act now.

Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#124

Post by Accujack »

londons_explore wrote: post #13
kenneth wrote: post #5

So… a few thoughts. I live in HK (having semi-recently moved here from the Bay Area, right before this all flared up). First, there's a ton of misinformation out there. Few sources have entirely accurate information, but the best English-language resource I've found on the subject is the local paper South China Morning Post (scmp.com). They have pretty accurate and unbiased live reporting of the protests as it flares…

What do you think are the chances that the tanks roll in, all protestors are shot or arrested, marshal law is declared for a few months, and eventually Hong Kong becomes just another city in China without its own special governance or laws?

One small nitpick:

Marshal Law = halfway decent comic book

Martial Law = military dictatorship of an area

Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#125

Post by decoyworker »

flyingfences wrote: post #120
decoyworker wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title calls one side Communists (as it should). That word has an effect on the reader.

Unfortunately, the effect is not what it should be for many readers in the modern West.

Could you explain what you mean by that?

Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#126

Post by nugga »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #47
loyukfai wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am not so sure about this, the current emphasis on "territorial integrity" is IMO as much, if not more of, a result of PRC propaganda as established on any historical basis.

It is not PRC propaganda. It's the other way round: PRC propaganda exploits this national feeling.

How do you qualify what constitutes a part of the country though? A whole lot of land changing hands and being conquered by force happened throughout the world's history.

I wonder how much of that unity sentiment is/was constructed and pushed on by leadership due to the area around current China being littered with competing kingdoms and a lot of internal strife and disarray throughout its history, not just the past 100 years.

In Chinese cinema, or at least some films, the theme of unity and to some extent 'glorious leadership' seems to be prevalent. Just came to mind that even in some Jet Li films (or equivalent) set in more ancient times you could probably be faced with some monologues or statements to that tune and at least I was a bit taken aback by how blatant it felt.

Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#127

Post by acd10j »

kenneth wrote: post #34
acd10j wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you rely on South China Morning Post (scmp.com) to be unbiased as their current owner is Chinese Alibaba Group ? Apart from mild criticisms, I don't think Alibaba group can afford to publish against Chinese government.

> Can you rely on South China Morning Post (scmp.com) to be unbiased as their current owner is Chinese Alibaba Group ? Apart from mild criticisms, I don't think Alibaba group can afford to publish against Chinese government. Not sure why your comment was killed, because I think it's a valid question. But since it was, responding here. Yes, they're owned by Alibaba. I happen to know some SCMP employees which gives me…

I don’t think it was killed, There are no upvotes or downvotes , It is just at bottom of the comment thread. That being said SCMP might still have some people who are editorially independent now. But I don’t think They would want to push their luck too far. Considering Alibaba group can face consequences of same in Mainland

Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#128

Post by mytailorisrich »

nugga wrote: post #126
mytailorisrich wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not PRC propaganda. It's the other way round: PRC propaganda exploits this national feeling.

How do you qualify what constitutes a part of the country though? A whole lot of land changing hands and being conquered by force happened throughout the world's history. I wonder how much of that unity sentiment is/was constructed and pushed on by leadership due to the area around current China being littered with competing kingdoms and a lot of internal strife and disarray throughout its history, not just the past…

Hong Kong was not the only port grabbed by foreign powers. There was also Macau, Xiamen, Shanghai, Tianjin, Dalian, Qingdao... I might forget others.

It's trying to push a narrative to argue what is part of the country...

Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#129

Post by Wowfunhappy »

acd10j wrote: post #127
kenneth wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you rely on South China Morning Post (scmp.com) to be unbiased as their current owner is Chinese Alibaba Group ? Apart from mild criticisms, I don't think Alibaba group can afford to publish against Chinese government. Not sure why your comment was killed, because I think it's a valid question. But since it was, responding here. Yes, they're owned by Alibaba. I happen to know some SCMP employees which gives me…

I don’t think it was killed, There are no upvotes or downvotes , It is just at bottom of the comment thread. That being said SCMP might still have some people who are editorially independent now. But I don’t think They would want to push their luck too far. Considering Alibaba group can face consequences of same in Mainland

The post was likely dead at the time the GP posted, and later some people vouched for the post to bring it back to life.

Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party

#130

Post by brianpgordon »

decoyworker wrote: post #125
flyingfences wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the effect is not what it should be for many readers in the modern West.

Could you explain what you mean by that?

Communism isn't a dirty word for millennials like it was for people growing up in the atmosphere of the Cold War.
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