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Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

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Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#521

Post by AshleyGrant »

dmitrygr wrote: post #77
AshleyGrant wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) It doesn't take an hour to charge an EV unless you're charging past 90%, which isn't typically done as it hurts the battery. B) You're bored b/c you have to stand next to the pump waiting for it to finish. This isn't a problem with EV charging. Go get a coffee or read a book.

Not everyone has time to "get a coffee or read a book" when the car runs empty. Some people live years without a free hour to "just go read a book", for example: anyone with young kids.

The day we ordered our Tesla, my wife and I (without kids) stopped at a truck stop on the way to the Tesla store that we end up stopping at on most of our trips out of town.

We did the following: a. Fueled up the car from about half a tank to full b. Used the restroom. c. Bought two fountain sodas

We timed the stop from when we parked to when we got back in the car. It was fifteen minutes. I would expect that any family that stops at that stop is there at least that long, if not longer. ---

Going back to in-town charging though.. You need to realize that all you need for a charging station is a parking lot, and you can leave the car while it charges. Put DC fast chargers in a grocery store parking lot, and people can charge while they do their weekly shopping. I doubt anyone with young kids is spending less than 30 minutes at the grocery store each week.

So instead of getting a coffee or reading a book, they can go buy cereal and frozen chicken nuggets.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#522

Post by AshleyGrant »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #69
AshleyGrant wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put the fast chargers at shopping centers.. Unless the car is run down to nearly a dead battery, it won't need but about 20 minutes on the charger. That's about how long a short trip to the grocery store takes.

Is it feasible to put in hundreds of high voltage chargers?

I don't see why not. The spikiness of the load can be handled via onsite battery packs. The battery packs can charge when power is cheap, discharge when it is expensive. The batteries can also be able to be used by shopping center tenants to help lower their costs.

Also, let's not forget that these chargers aren't there for everyone to use, but for those who cannot charge at home. For those who can charge at home, that will be a much simpler, cheaper solution.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#523

Post by AshleyGrant »

rootusrootus wrote: post #403
Reason077 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest generation of cars and chargers don't need an hour to charge. A Tesla Model 3 can already charge at 250 kW, which is over 1000 miles per hour. Practically speaking, that means a decent charge in less than 20 minutes. On a long trip, most stops for gas take around that long anyway by the time you use the restroom, buy supplies, eat, etc. The newest chargers being installed today go up to 350 kW, so the char…

> A Tesla Model 3 can already charge at 250 kW Can it really? I saw something more like 130 kW when it started charging, because it was pretty low. It tapered off steadily. Still only took about 45 minutes overall, but I doubt the hardware could actually sustain 1000 miles/hour charging levels for more than a few minutes.

https://insideevs.com/news/343622/tesla-model-3-on-superchar...

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#524

Post by gist »

RandallBrown wrote: post #410
gist wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I simply don't get this. All of that effort when it's (for lack of a better way to put it) 'not ready for prime time'. Other comments include running an electric extension cord out the window and other hacks. A cord out the window be serious. Imagine for a second of what compensating good could be done for the world if people put the same time, thought or effort into something else with more immediate (and u…

It's not any extra effort to plug your car in at the grocery store while you're shopping. In fact, it's often less effort because the electric charging spots are often closer to the doors. Then you don't have to make an extra stop or trip just for gas. It sounds way better than the current situation with gas.

Extra effort? You have the anxiety of wondering if the spot will be open or not. Also as the method becomes more popular it would make sense that the spots will not be increased immediately and therefore will not be open. And of course the grocery store is only one place you go and how many people go there regularly enough to use it for charging and how many spots do they have or will have?

> It sounds way better than the current situation with gas.

Seriously? Where do you live and where would you get gas? This is a non issue for most people.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#525

Post by nerdponx »

freeflight wrote: post #357
neogodless wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laundry. That just might be the perfect example. What a huge division of experience between the wealthy and the less wealthy. Most homeowners have laundry in their home. Starting and switching loads is a few minutes, and the rest of their time is still free. Many high-end apartments have laundry within a short walk from each residence. It's largely the same experience. But then those with less ability to afford "nice…

> Laundry. That just might be the perfect example. What a huge division of experience between the wealthy and the less wealthy. While a bit off-topic: I never understood why a lack of washing machines in flats is such a huge issue in some countries. In Germany, most flats come with a connector for your own washing machine, those that don't have on inside the flat often have them in the basement, where every party liv…

I can speak for why this happens in New York City:

1. Lack of space in apartments

2. Lack of basement space to put shared washing machines

3. Cheap landlord who doesn't want to install/maintain shared washing machines

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#526

Post by Reason077 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #403
Reason077 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest generation of cars and chargers don't need an hour to charge. A Tesla Model 3 can already charge at 250 kW, which is over 1000 miles per hour. Practically speaking, that means a decent charge in less than 20 minutes. On a long trip, most stops for gas take around that long anyway by the time you use the restroom, buy supplies, eat, etc. The newest chargers being installed today go up to 350 kW, so the char…

> A Tesla Model 3 can already charge at 250 kW Can it really? I saw something more like 130 kW when it started charging, because it was pretty low. It tapered off steadily. Still only took about 45 minutes overall, but I doubt the hardware could actually sustain 1000 miles/hour charging levels for more than a few minutes.

> "Can it really? I saw something more like 130 kW when it started charging, because it was pretty low."

You need to be using the new V3 superchargers, which are just starting to roll out, to get the 250 kW rate. V2 superchargers top out at ~130 kW.

The charge speed does taper off as state of charge increases, but reaches 70% in 19 minutes. This is well over 200 miles of range, hence "decent" charge.

The Model 3 is also compatible with Ionity CCS chargers in Europe, and gets about 190 kW on those.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#527

Post by RandallBrown »

gist wrote: post #524
RandallBrown wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not any extra effort to plug your car in at the grocery store while you're shopping. In fact, it's often less effort because the electric charging spots are often closer to the doors. Then you don't have to make an extra stop or trip just for gas. It sounds way better than the current situation with gas.

Extra effort? You have the anxiety of wondering if the spot will be open or not. Also as the method becomes more popular it would make sense that the spots will not be increased immediately and therefore will not be open. And of course the grocery store is only one place you go and how many people go there regularly enough to use it for charging and how many spots do they have or will have? > It sounds way better tha…

My experience today is that there are almost always open EV charging spots at places that have them. No anxiety needed.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#528

Post by Moru »

cjrp wrote: post #516
Moru wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our hospital used to have lifts that didn't stop at floors. The had no doors, you just jump on them and get off. They were intended for staff only, to quickly get between floors so slightly out of view of the public. They were replaced a few years ago though. Mabe too many accidents?

Were they paternoster lifts? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster

Yes, that's the ones. Never heard the name of them, thanks!

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#529

Post by jgust »

pi-rat wrote: post #491
rconti wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very cool! I seem to recall first reading about such plans as early as the 90s. It almost certainly wouldn't be allowed most places in the US because regulatory schemes always need approval to change, and it would be considered suspicious and an attempt to hide 'true' costs from the consumer (eg, the power provider can just change the rate any time they want , it will hurt poor people who can't afford these smart app…

In our case the power provider, the to the house line owner and the producer are all separate. My provides buys from the cheapest renewable offered up on NordPool. My fee to the provider is fixed (39 NOK per month). They don't get a cut of the cost per kwh to the producer. If one producer raise their price, they'll just be outbid. If they all raise their prices too much their reservoars will overflow. I pay the marke…

Wow. The grid in the US sucks.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#530

Post by throw0101a »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #513
throw0101a wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cycle in with your lycra and then change into your work clothes. I've pedalled in -10C and 35C in Toronto. Showering at work isn't necessary either: sweat is odourless, and the stickiness comes from bacteria. So you can actually shower before cycling to get things clean and you'll be fine the whole day. In some ways we're actually ourselves too much: * https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/550291/beyond-soap-...

Based on my experience dancing, the trick of showering before exercise only works for about 4 hours if you're wearing cotton or wool. Lycra gives you about two. When you're dancing for more than four hours everybody is stinky and exhausted and nobody cares. At the office? Make sure to schedule your meetings in the morning, and definitely avoid supper meetings.

1. Cycle in, perhaps working up a sweat.

2. After cooling down a little, change out of potentially stinky commuting clothes into your work clothes.

This seems to work for me, and given the characters I work with, they'd let me know if there was a problem without any qualms.

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