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Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

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Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#311

Post by oefrha »

loyukfai wrote: post #192
rruieews wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> assume that someone who bans all Winnie The Pooh pictures across a country I'm not sure if this will change your opinion, but this isn't true. I asked my friends that are in China now to search for Winne The Pooh on Baidu and Bing, and they were able to find pictures of the character. The are also Winnie the Pooh cartoons and movies and dolls readily available in China. Along with various merchandise for sale. So n…

Such things change by the day, you have to understand that. The PRC government does not publish a exhaustive list of what's being banned at the moment. It wouldn't surprise me either, that the decision was made not by Xi, but by someone who wanted to appease him or the part or whatever.

I’m currently in Mainland China for a few months. Just searched and surely it’s totally fine:

- Winnie the Pooh Baidu search: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/49120719/62957954-...

- Baidu image search featuring both Winnie and Xi: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/49120719/62958027-... (Memes are filtered or at least demoted, though.)

My local friends don’t think it was ever banned. (Of course they aren’t bored enough to monitor this every day.)

A lot of stupid claims about China in the Western press are easily debunked with the teeniest amount of Mandarin knowledge, or none at all. If it sounds too crazy, it’s probably false. Doesn’t help when people reaffirm each other’s totally unfounded opinions, and discredit anyone who speaks otherwise.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#312

Post by AnimalMuppet »

intopieces wrote: post #226
dep_b wrote: post #81

As incomes rise in China people will demand other things from the government than food, shelter and a comfortable middle class life. Hong Kong was ahead of the rest of China since they have been living pretty liberal under UK rule and were more prosperous. Whatever they do in Hong Kong now will not stop from things happening all over China at a given point.

This was the theory during the Clinton administration and, to be blunt, that theory has been wrong. The Chinese people do not see risking growth disruption as worth what the west considers freedom. The west has fundamentally failed to make that case to them and even now western democracy is on the decline. Please, please do not take a free China for granted. Do not think that change — that democracy and freedom — is…

> The Chinese people do not see risking growth disruption as worth what the west considers freedom.

Joel Garreau once said (IIRC) "To not have the problems of your parents is to not have problems." If you grew up worried about hunger, and now you have enough to eat, life is good. Political freedom? Might be nice, but not a big problem.

For the next generation, though, who grew up with enough food to eat...

> The west has fundamentally failed to make that case to them and even now western democracy is on the decline.

Ouch. But it hurts because it's true. I'm hoping it's only temporary, but yeah, the west at the moment is not exactly a shining advertisement for how great democracy is...

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#313

Post by fouric »

dragonsh wrote: post #120
dep_b wrote: post #81

As incomes rise in China people will demand other things from the government than food, shelter and a comfortable middle class life. Hong Kong was ahead of the rest of China since they have been living pretty liberal under UK rule and were more prosperous. Whatever they do in Hong Kong now will not stop from things happening all over China at a given point.

These are fake news to foment Hong Kong protestors by conflating facts. I hope such fake news do not become part of HN. You are absolutely right Hong Kong cannot even provide proper shelter or health system or good education to more than 40% of its people, who live in a space smaller than prison cell. All these protests are due to this simmering discontent. I do not think living in a prison cell size apartment and th…

Where is your evidence to back up your assertion that the linked Twitter post is "fake news"?

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#315

Post by pimmen »

BlueonMount wrote: post #308
pimmen wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There isn't any framework where this would be seen as illegal or illegitimate. Doing it just to effectively end "One China, two systems" would absolutely be breaking a teaty. Which is illegal.

HK’s security is fundamentally derived from Chinese military power. Mainland soldiers are regularly stationed in HK. This is part of what One China means.

Yes, but if the populations want ”One China, two systems” enforced and the PLA stops that by force, it’s not really about the security of Hong Kong anymore. It’s using the military to subjugate its population rather than protecting them.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#316

Post by MagnumOpus »

apexalpha wrote: post #123

What's with the apologists in here saying the US is behind it all and copying other Chinese talking points?

Note the heavy creation of new accounts who parrot similar sets of talking points. State-sponsored posting has reached HN. Surprising to me, we are a vanishingly small niche audience -- but it lets you draw conclusions about the extent of wumaodang activity in other venues.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#318

Post by fouric »

BlueonMount wrote: post #291

I’m an ordinary HK resident, software engineer, living in Kowloon and work in HK island. I see the protesters breaking laws, damaging properties, obstructing traffic, causing the entire society to grind to halt. Their actions are not unlike mobs and they disrupt social order almost everywhere. I don’t know under what circumstances mainland military can get involved, but I hope when they do, law and order can be resto…

That's what the local police is for. Where are they? What are they doing? The PRC army marching in without the HK government explicitly and publicly calling for assistance seems like its much more likely to be the PRC taking hostile action than benevolently lending assistance.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#320

Post by salawat »

tomatocracy wrote: post #41
A2017U1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much money did private enterprise make from the Arab Spring? Hundred billion or so? To pretend like it was a moral issue is insane. Most people don't care in the slightest in democratic countries. Virtually every country involved in sending troops couldn't point to it on a map nor talk about the region with any sort of knowledge. We walked in and replaced Hussein with ISIS. It will go down as 21st century Vietnam…

The previous strongmen regimes were rather better for foreign investors than the current regimes and foreign investors would probably rather have seen stable governments gradually improving rights for foreign investors (certainly as an investor in one of those countries at the time through my work, from a purely business perspective I would have preferred a more peaceful path towards democracy). I don't think foreign…

There's something absolutely twisted about your argument's implicit acceptance of a state that runs roughshod over its own populace, but treats foreign investors with the Velvet glove while turning a profit through the meat grinder.

If you can't see the good of the balance sheet shouldn't always justify the enablement of despotism... Well... I'm probably not going to make any convincing argument that'll make it past the pragmatism filter.

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