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One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

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Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#131

Post by rsynnott »

mattlondon wrote: post #78

Interesting - so is it "a thing" in the US that the city runs a dedicated bus service for all schools/students? Quite a surprise for me considering how poor people say public transport is in general in the US? In the UK some schools run their own bus things (in the same way that Goolge, Facebook et al do in San Francisco), but most of the other schools just get by with the public buses. There is often some coordinati…

I think quite a lot of rural schools in the UK would have some sort of specialised bus service. US suburban areas are generally much less dense than UK ones and often have much worse public transport, if any, so the rural routes are probably a better comparison.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#133

Post by rsynnott »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #73
andrepd wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The street organization is irrational, derived haphazardly from ad-hoc pre-auto paths. Isn't thus true of any European city?

Not any, many were rebuilt after bombings in WW2. Even so, Germany is known for splendid trains, meanwhile Bostons trains are notoriously bad. My old company was off the red line and numerous employees were delayed at least once a week due to the red line sucking.

While many European cities were substantially rebuilt after WW2, the existing layout was usually retained.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#134

Post by fluffything »

jefftk wrote: post #93
ndjskska wrote: post #27

In Germany we're assigned to the nearest school. I remember walking to school in elementary school, later taking the bike for 20 min or public transportation. I don't live in a particularly dense area. Is Boston too sparsely populated to have schools in walking or biking distance? Seems that we accept distances of 1-2 km for elementary school walks. (0.6 to 1.2 miles)

> Is Boston too sparsely populated to have schools in walking or biking distance? Boston is reasonably dense, but it's also defacto segregated, with parts of the city having different racial and class makeup. If we went back to neighborhood schools that people walked to that would mean effectively resegregating the schools. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_desegregation_busing_cr...

So Boston combats segregation by making children commute for longer ?

Does that also apply to privileged families ? (I assume those would send children to private schools, avoiding such a system).

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#135

Post by plopz »

ido wrote: post #88
lonnyk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What’s the problem with walking a kilometer or two Where I grew up in New Jersey I lived 2 miles (3.2 KM) from school and I was considered close to the school. Those who lived within a 10-20 minute walk would walk. Many of us who lived further away would rely on the bus. Edit: And this was for elementary and middle school (up to age 13). From ages 14-18 everyone was significantly further away.

Assuming you were in a city rather than a rural area, is it because US school are larger & fewer? Nowhere in my hometown (250k mid-sized city) is more than 10-15 minutes walk from a school.

New Jersey doesn't have cities that large.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#136

Post by smileysteve »

w8rbt wrote: post #101
illnewsthat wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never heard of a bus driver being a volunteer position, is that something that happens near you? And, if so, is it a public school district?

This has been my experience as well. It's either retirees or stay at home moms/dads that drive the buses part time. They may not be purely volunteer (no pay), but it's definitely a part time job. Couple of hours in the morning and afternoon. Also, it seems to be mostly in rural areas. Some drivers keep the buses at home during the school year. And, these are large, full size buses. If you live in a medium sized or la…

The government benefits package has been a major selling point in the past; If you want a pension (or second one as a retiree) it can really help the ends meet. Pay in the 2000s was about $24k a year.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#137

Post by smileysteve »

yardstick wrote: post #124
Dylan16807 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a change between years, and students moving to high school are already facing the exact same changes. The disparity can't be a non-starter because it already existed. Those early hours exist. Someone has to take them (without doubling the bus fleet size). And it's better for the students if they have the early hours in elementary and not in high school.

Rather than penalise subsets of people with early starts, I would rather everyone pay marginally more in taxes for more buses. Also what if your family has both teenagers and preteens? In my family we drove, so the schedule was based on when my parents had to go to work. I’d often arrive at school when the library opened or just before, which is a good hour before when classes started. Then again, my school experienc…

> Also what if your family has both teenagers and preteens?

"When I was a kid" preteens and teenagers were expected to be able to get to the bus stop on their own; But maybe that's just because both of my parents worked and left before the bus came.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#138

Post by moftz »

ikeyany wrote: post #130
pnutjam wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving a school bus requires a CDL in every state.

If they enforced it, then it must not be that hard to get. It looks like you just need to take a test to get one.

The test is a bit more involved than a normal driving test. A normal test just involves reading street signs and how to handle things like right of way, don't pass on the right, use your blinker, basic important topics. CDL tests ask questions about maintenance (how often to inspect tires?), about how big trucks move on the road compared to little cars (which kind of truck could get stuck on a RR crossing?), and misc stuff like hazmat diamonds. It's not the hardest test in the world but it's more studying than a normal DL test.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#139

Post by closeparen »

mattlondon wrote: post #78

Interesting - so is it "a thing" in the US that the city runs a dedicated bus service for all schools/students? Quite a surprise for me considering how poor people say public transport is in general in the US? In the UK some schools run their own bus things (in the same way that Goolge, Facebook et al do in San Francisco), but most of the other schools just get by with the public buses. There is often some coordinati…

School buses pick up at trivial distances from children's homes, where they can be visually supervised between the door and the bus either by their own parents or by a trusted neighbor. The bus driver passes a background check, and no other adults are allowed. The bus drops off right on school property, not on the other side of a fast road. If a school bus does not come, takes a long detour, or quits mid-route it is national news [0].

For people who can afford alternatives, riding public transit is something you do as an adventurous young adult, and maybe get turned off of even then (sexual harassment, aggressive panhandling, long delays and breakdowns). In the culture I grew up in, sending your 7 year old to navigate that unsupervised every day is bonkers.

[0] https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Bus-Driver-Detour-Fort-L...

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#140

Post by hitekker »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #126
seltzered_ wrote: post #112

“After it was unveiled parents loudly objected to the proposal. Less than a month later, the district repealed the proposed new school start times. As Dimitris Bertsimas, a professor who led the MIT team, pointed out in a presentation about the solution, those who favored the status quo had the most to lose. “When your kids are affected negatively, it is hard to see the big picture,” he said.” Joi Ito wrote on this h…

>Optimizing the algorithm for greater “equity" also meant many of the planned changes were "biased" against families with privilege. I mean maybe but measuring that by the skin color of those protesting is... not a good method. Of course people marching on City Hall or showing up at schoolboard meetings are going to be the disproportionately privileged, they're the people who have the time for that sort of thing. But…

Excellent rebuttal.

Something about the presence of a metric and an algorithm causes our brains to switch off.

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