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One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

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Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#51

Post by seren »

mattlutze wrote: post #48
mac01021 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Boston's climate very similar to most of Germany's?

Boston is at 42.3601 N longitude, which is actually pretty far south-ish compared to Germany. For comparison, Munich, Germany is 48.1351° N, Barcelona, Spain is 41.3851° N

Due to the ocean currents, i.e. cold water coming from the North on the US East coast, and hot water coming back from the South on the European West coast, it does not make much sense to compare latitude on the 2 sides of the Atlantic.

Famously(?) New York is at the same latitude that Naples, they definitely don't have the same climate.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#52

Post by Dylan16807 »

elcomet wrote: post #49
Dylan16807 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a change between years, and students moving to high school are already facing the exact same changes. The disparity can't be a non-starter because it already existed. Those early hours exist. Someone has to take them (without doubling the bus fleet size). And it's better for the students if they have the early hours in elementary and not in high school.

Well yeah but when you choose a school, you choose it based on those criterias. They cannot just change the schedule like this

It sounded like the hours were relatively consistent over the whole system. It wouldn't really affect school choice.

But fine, if this change is somehow egregious compared to other ones, give a 5 year warning.

The schedule benefits their kids, with a net zero change in the convenience of starting hours. What a shortsighted way to complain.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#53

Post by poooogles »

mattlutze wrote: post #48
mac01021 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Boston's climate very similar to most of Germany's?

Boston is at 42.3601 N longitude, which is actually pretty far south-ish compared to Germany. For comparison, Munich, Germany is 48.1351° N, Barcelona, Spain is 41.3851° N

Longitude in itself doesn't dictate weather. Labrador is the same longitude as London but we don't have similar climates.

Köppen climate classification is probably the best indicator of where else is similar; which comes out as the same as most of northern Europe [1].

1. https://www.weatherbase.com/weather/weather-summary.php3?s=9...

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#54

Post by lonnyk »

Swizec wrote: post #39
joe_the_user wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boston is different from this in a whole variety of ways. 1) Americans just in general tend to drive their kids to school dues to fear of child abductions and related ever-present paranoia. 2) Boston's transportation system is broken on just about every levels. The street organization is irrational, derived haphazardly from ad-hoc pre-auto paths. The public transit system was also built in an ad-hoc and is at level w…

> 1) Americans just in general tend to drive their kids to school dues to fear of child abductions and related ever-present paranoia. Is it true that in some places this paranoia has gotten so far that you’ll get reported to child services if you let your kids walk to school? > 3) Boston's weather is also miserable - the place is at just latitude so that wet, 30 degree weather prevails in winter, giving freezing rain…

> What’s the problem with walking a kilometer or two

Where I grew up in New Jersey I lived 2 miles (3.2 KM) from school and I was considered close to the school. Those who lived within a 10-20 minute walk would walk. Many of us who lived further away would rely on the bus.

Edit: And this was for elementary and middle school (up to age 13). From ages 14-18 everyone was significantly further away.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#55

Post by remote_phone »

The automation of this is great and saves time and money.

But this highlights the exact problem that Andrew Yang, the Democratic Candidate is highlighting which is: what do we do with people whose jobs are lost to automation and algorithms?

His proposal of universal basic income helps these people who have lost their jobs attempt a soft landing because at least they will have some income.

I used to be against UBI but now I fully understand why we need it, because too many jobs are going to be eliminated, and what do we do with these people who have lost their jobs? They are likely older with lower skills, and retraining programs are statistically an abject failure.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#56

Post by notahacker »

remote_phone wrote: post #55

The automation of this is great and saves time and money. But this highlights the exact problem that Andrew Yang, the Democratic Candidate is highlighting which is: what do we do with people whose jobs are lost to automation and algorithms? His proposal of universal basic income helps these people who have lost their jobs attempt a soft landing because at least they will have some income. I used to be against UBI but…

We could start by not underestimating human capacity to invent new jobs. Long before algorithms were a thing, automation largely eliminated agricultural and domestic servant jobs that used to employ the vast majority of people

And the welfare state wasn't invented by Andrew Yang: only difference is his variant assumes people who are desperate to find work and people that have absolutely no need to or intention of doing anything other than live off their savings or family wealth have exactly the same need for subsidies...

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#57

Post by DavidHm »

msl wrote: post #40
mac01021 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Boston's climate very similar to most of Germany's?

One thing I have learned from reading (and occasionally taking part in) these discussions is that no, it is not . The US is different . It is too big, too small, too densely populated, too sparsely populated, too hot, too cold, too dry and too humid for anything to work. It does not matter if something appears to work most everywhere else. It will not work anywhere in the US.

A bit cynical, but not unfair. Many people in the US persistently cling to the idea that solution implemented and working (albeit imperfectly) in other parts of the world will not work in the US due to XYZ.

Which in a way, is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Solutions implemented in the rest of the world will not work in the US because most people don't believe they will, or that the US is not capable of radical change (that is, radical change not driven by an individual or a corporate desire for profit)

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#58

Post by isostatic »

jedberg wrote: post #22
finolex1 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no economist, but that 5 million saved will be spent on other job creating activities. Perhaps it won't be a 1:1 replacement, but it's certainly not the elimination of 50 jobs.

Yes, 50 bus driver jobs, which require maybe a high school education, was replaced with teacher jobs, which require an education beyond bachelors. Those aren't equivalent jobs. Those bus drivers are SOL because most of them aren't interested in retraining.

> most of them aren't interested in retraining

And this is the problem. Culturally many people seem quite happy to leave high school and get a menial job. Those jobs are vanishing, just like jobs for elementary school dropouts vanished decades ago.

Society doesn't need people who are unwilling to aim higher than driving a bus for 50 years.

This doesn't mean everyone needs to have a phd -- there's plenty of jobs for trained plumbers, electricians, mechanics etc, but those all require training post high school.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#60

Post by andrepd »

joe_the_user wrote: post #29
ndjskska wrote: post #27

In Germany we're assigned to the nearest school. I remember walking to school in elementary school, later taking the bike for 20 min or public transportation. I don't live in a particularly dense area. Is Boston too sparsely populated to have schools in walking or biking distance? Seems that we accept distances of 1-2 km for elementary school walks. (0.6 to 1.2 miles)

Boston is different from this in a whole variety of ways. 1) Americans just in general tend to drive their kids to school dues to fear of child abductions and related ever-present paranoia. 2) Boston's transportation system is broken on just about every levels. The street organization is irrational, derived haphazardly from ad-hoc pre-auto paths. The public transit system was also built in an ad-hoc and is at level w…

>The street organization is irrational, derived haphazardly from ad-hoc pre-auto paths.

Isn't thus true of any European city?

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