The Horror of Microsoft Teams • Hacker News Board

Re: The Horror of Microsoft Teams

#311

Post by scottlu2 » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 2:29 PM UTC

rtpg wrote: post #190

bdamm wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Developers can pick from many native-widget frameworks in pretty much any language, heck I bet there are even Qt bindings for node. But there are just so many people doing web development, it's probably a hiring/design issue in that hiring web developers and designers is just so much easier than hiring whatever people know the GUI framework that's driving much of the code.

There's also the fact that the UI tools for web development are mostly way easier to use than Gtk or Qt. Even "simple" stuff like Tcl/Tk is not trivial to get working easily or well. HTML + CSS + something like React is miles simpler than writing something for Gtk. Qt has QML now but the C++ Qt bindings are _pretty hard_! And after all that work you don't (by default) get an app that resizes as nicely as the HTML/CSS…

This is an important point. Being easier to create means faster to market, faster to create new features, easier cross platform, more value for users in less time. Not all apps can be web based but for those that can be, faster dev time has become a competitive requirement.

Re: The Horror of Microsoft Teams

#312

Post by bgdnyxbjx » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 2:33 PM UTC

swebs wrote: post #279

toxican wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's built on Electron and still no native Linux client. There's a web version, but you can't join meetings or screenshare. There are 3rd party wrappers for the web version that enable meetings, but you still can't screenshare. At the very least their web version needs to have parity with the desktop application. It's 2019, browsers can handle voice chat and screensharing!

>It's built on Electron and still no native Linux client Remember this next time their PR team tries to pull another round of "Microsoft has totally changed you guys, we swear! The new Microsoft loves Linux"

https://www.neowin.net/amp/microsoft-teams-might-be-coming-t...

Re: The Horror of Microsoft Teams

#313

Post by briffle » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 2:59 PM UTC

pacoverdi wrote: post #207

toxican wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's built on Electron and still no native Linux client. There's a web version, but you can't join meetings or screenshare. There are 3rd party wrappers for the web version that enable meetings, but you still can't screenshare. At the very least their web version needs to have parity with the desktop application. It's 2019, browsers can handle voice chat and screensharing!

Well, there is an unofficial 'snap' package for Linux that enables all features including screen sharing. I don't remember the name but it must be easy to find. Edit: probably https://snapcraft.io/teams-for-linux

you can view in a screen share, but not send your screen.

Re: The Horror of Microsoft Teams

#314

Post by rsynnott » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 3:22 PM UTC

smacktoward wrote: post #49

rsynnott wrote: post #32

It’s astonishing how bad Microsoft seems to be at things like this. I don’t really understand what’s going on in there.

Microsoft used to be fairly decent at making software that was usable by ordinary people. Then they took over the Fortune 500 world after IBM crumbled, and promptly caught Enterprise Disease.

I think their problems with internet-y stuff in particular started before they became the new IBM. Outlook was still pretty awful in the 90s, say.

Re: The Horror of Microsoft Teams

#315

Post by GhostVII » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 3:26 PM UTC

cameronbrown wrote: post #203

GhostVII wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the application to be tightly coupled to the OS, because then my applications have a consistent UI. All of my GTK apps look great, because I can change the theme for all of them with a single command. With one script, I can switch my entire system from dark mode to light mode, and have all applications have the exact same color scheme - can't do that if every application has their own implementation of the UI…

And then we end up in GTK hell: https://stopthemingmy.app/ At least the web platform is open enough to do this and still function.

That's really not a hard problem to solve though, as an application developer you can just have a default theme for your app, and have some checkbox somewhere letting the user use their OS theme instead of the app default.

Or you can just accept that whenever you let someone configure the UI in an advanced way, it is possible for them to make the UI more confusing. Just because it is possible for someone to mess up your app with a bad config, doesn't mean it is best to remove any kind of configuration at all.

Re: The Horror of Microsoft Teams

#316

Post by GhostVII » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 3:32 PM UTC

gitgud wrote: post #179

GhostVII wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the application to be tightly coupled to the OS, because then my applications have a consistent UI. All of my GTK apps look great, because I can change the theme for all of them with a single command. With one script, I can switch my entire system from dark mode to light mode, and have all applications have the exact same color scheme - can't do that if every application has their own implementation of the UI…

Yes, there are benefits to having the OS supply the components; switching themes, familiar design and probably performance gains. But, the trade off is simply unpredictability . The app is assuming that the OS has all the components it needs, at the correct version etc. Not all OS's have all components you think, which leads to unreliable user interfaces, which may work for small applications with only a few OS depen…

That's why you build on top of a layer which ensures the OS has the required components. If you build on top of GTK, you know your application will run on any OS with that GTK version installed. Or if you build on top of Android, you know they will make sure that the button component still works on different versions of the OS.

Re: The Horror of Microsoft Teams

#317

Post by screye » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 3:34 PM UTC

dagw wrote: post #206

bluedino wrote: post #47

Microsoft ruins Skype, then tries making their own communication tool. Ugh. What is it again that Microsoft is getting such accolades for? Visual Studio Code is fantastic. Github is great, but they bought that. Office 365? OneDrive? I'll give you those. Hosted Exchange is a thorn in my side. Internet Explorer and Edge are (were?) both a joke. I don't have any experience with Azure. Xbox is great. Their server product…

The Surface line isn't anything special. They are hands down the best not-Apple laptops I've used since IBM stopped making Thinkpads.

The surface laptops are especially special.

Their design aesthetic is clearly unique, and their products are well distinguished from each other.

No one else is 3:2 aspect ratios, processing in the screen section of the laptop, the hinge or fabric cover. (which has been shown to not be as fragile as people initially thought)

I am very hyped for the 3nd gen surface laptop and the 2nd gen surface go.

Re: The Horror of Microsoft Teams

#318

Post by castlecrasher2 » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 3:45 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #84

Main issue killing me with Teams is that the desktop client can't be joined to two servers (at least, last time I checked). As a contractor, I have a Teams at my company and a Teams at my client, and I had to pick one, which is terrible.

There's a drop-down element in the top-right that lets you switch, but it's nothing as easy as Slack.

Re: The Horror of Microsoft Teams

#319

Post by castlecrasher2 » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 3:46 PM UTC

jimnotgym wrote: post #59

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's correct. The company where I am currently working at was using Slack but recently decided to stop paying for Slack and instead use Teams since they were already paying for a subscription to Office 365 for each employee. I hate it. My colleagues hate it. The UI is terrible. Most of the time navigating between the channels is a pain and the UI is just horrendous. I think the funniest thing that was released late…

>The emojis are of bad quality and look like crap. Maybe an oversite on my part, but I didn't even consider this as I was evaluating an enterprise productivity app...

The emojis look like they came straight out of the early 2000s. It's about as bad as if the had picked Comic Sans as being the default font.

Re: The Horror of Microsoft Teams

#320

Post by ocdtrekkie » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

castlecrasher2 wrote: post #318

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #84

Main issue killing me with Teams is that the desktop client can't be joined to two servers (at least, last time I checked). As a contractor, I have a Teams at my company and a Teams at my client, and I had to pick one, which is terrible.

There's a drop-down element in the top-right that lets you switch, but it's nothing as easy as Slack.

The drop-down lets me sign in and out of my one account, but I don't see a way to sign into another one. Similarly, there's a "Manage Teams" button I found, but you can't use it to add a team from another account/server there.