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Who Owns Huawei?

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321–330 of 334 posts

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#321
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know Apple has. If you believe there are Russian or Chinese companies that have acted similarly, that’s fine, but to convince the rest of us the burden is on you to provide some examples.

I disagree on where the burden of proof lies. I live in the US and keep up with US tech company news, so I would expect to hear about Apple’s conflict with the US government. I know of very few Russian or Chinese companies, and I wouldn’t expect to hear domestic news about companies in those countries having conflict with their government. Note: the original claim is that companies in those countries DO NOT attempt t…

> the original claim is that companies in those countries DO NOT attempt to defy their government for similar information requests. I believe the burden of proof for that claim is on the people making that claim

Surely you see the absurdity of that remark?

There are no substantial cases of companies in Russia and China where they have tried to fight information disclosures. Except for the high profile case of the social network in Russia... which is now under new, Kremlin friendly leadership.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#322
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the one hand, I've heard that authoritarianism is soul-crushing and I've been raised to believe that individual freedom is paramount. You need to be aware that you're buying into a persistent pro-Western, anti-China propaganda. If you survey a random sampling of Chinese citizens, the vast majority of them would in no way find the system they're living under "soul crushing". Yes, people of Xinjiang and Tibet live…

Not the OP, but; yes, living in a society where human-traffickers can work in broad day-light because everybody is only concerned by their own business. I must be living in my pro-Western delusion in thinking that's not right. Sure, the Chinese system is the product of its people, its culture and thousands of years of history. So comparing it to Western system by simple looking into the authoritarianism vs free-speec…

> In West, there isn't a similar chaos to be organized and most people behave quite amicably. Thus, strict oversight is not needed and instead decision-making can be distributed to the people...

I think the term shalmanese used, "ungovernable anarchy," is a fair description of Chinese culture. However I think you are mistaking this to also imply non-self-organization - which would be inaccurate.

Chinese culture values pragmatism over consistency. As a matter of pragmatism, the Chinese are cognizant of working cooperatively with other people in order to better obtain their individual or their respective families' goals. Families that work together survive together. To this end, in Chinese culture, people do often help each other out and look after each other like family. The Chinese aren't as unsophisticated ("non-amicable") as you think.

In this culture of ungovernable anarchy, individual agents grow up to be highly autonomous adults. You can see this manifested as immigrant Chinese entrepreneurship in places all around the world from America to Africa. The self-organization aspect of this culture are manifested by the numerous Chinatown communities in cosmopolitan cities around the world from New York to Montreal. These communities aren't led by any all powerful authorities - they are self-organized ghettos, sociological gems.

> instead decision-making can be distributed to the people...

Jordan Peterson once said something along the lines of how the more we clamor for autonomy, the more we also internally desire to be controlled - or something of the sort. I wish I could find the clip since I butchered that.

However, I'd say there are abstract kinds of tyrannies that people subject themselves in America. An example is how Americans are taught to follow laws, regulations, or processes even when they are inefficient, wrong, or don't make sense. The Chinese people are more willing to avoid these formalities because they may be more confident in deciding for themselves what makes sense.

In this way, the Chinese people can be said to have more freedom than Westerners because they don't subject themselves to a certain form of other people's control. Such a contrast makes Chinese society seem relatively like a self-organizing "ungovernable anarchy".

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you fully read the OP's comment? We're not talking software here -- we're talking hardware, engineering, and many other things that you don't just get a copy of the how-to's from open source projects.

The claim is that the Chinese are copying stuff via industrial espionage. I get that. But Apple also sued Samsung for using rounded corners on a phone. So there's a lot of gray area in IP enforcement. A similar non-chinese example is the AV1 codec from Google or the Android compatibility with Java. Both are claimed to be IP theft by other western parties. I don't think either of those claims hold up, and I have no re…

Our current IP protections are copyright, patent, and trade secrets. It's a mistake to conflate the three. Stealing trade secrets is a bit different from mimicking another's visual identity (rounded corners).

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#324
post #42
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marxists have a term for what you're describing: "state capitalism."

[flagged]

Would you please stop posting flamebait to HN? We've already had to ask you this recently. We ban accounts that keep doing it, so please stop.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#325
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marxists have a term for what you're describing: "state capitalism."

[flagged]

Would you please stop using HN for ideological warfare? This is not what the site is for, and it destroys what it is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#326
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Would you please stop using HN for ideological warfare? This is not what the site is for, and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20675363 This is not pseudoscience -- unlike many of the other comments on GMOs and hormones. It's backed by research and the FDA.

Tell me where I'm wrong

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the same way that I accept Google copied Oracle's max function. If that's the worst that anyone can pin on a multi-billion-dollar-revenue company, it's pretty squeaky clean. The Nortel accusations are completely evidence-free. Nortel collapsed because of the bursting of the tech bubble, mixed in with a fair dose of "creative accounting." > I'm curious to know why this is all so hard for you to believe. Because the…

I've read your other responses and while the points you make are reasonable, it's "obvious" to many that a certain threshold of belief has been crossed, most notably by industry insiders. There are far too many accounts of Huawei's behaviour that leads one to suspicion. You don't need mass media for this. Read the countless first hand experiences here and elsewhere. Unless of course you believe they're astroturfing.

I haven't read any such accounts, although I constantly hear people saying that Huawei is a shady company. The media campaign has worked, and everyone just knows Huawei to be shady - just nobody is quite sure why. That's why I ask for specific cases, but all I ever get in response are the same two or three minor incidents from a long time ago. This is in contrast to other major tech companies that people generally find respectable (Samsung, Apple, Google, Microsoft), which have engaged in far more serious documented cases of IP theft over their histories.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#328
post #324
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Would you please stop posting flamebait to HN? We've already had to ask you this recently. We ban accounts that keep doing it, so please stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I don’t have a way to convince you that I’m posting in good faith, but for what it’s worth, I guarantee you that I’m not trolling or seeking to cause disruption.

As others have pointed out, the traditional Western concept of the private-public division doesn’t exist in China. It is in fact similar to historical economic conditions in fascist Europe; specifically, the state-controlled labor unions (and ban on private unions), mandatory party cells within private companies, military involvement in commercial enterprises, and synthesis of the one-party state and a market economy.

I understand that some in the HN community are allergic to comparisons between fascist systems and contemporary societies. I understand they may downvote and flag such comments, and that this creates headache for you. I’m sorry for the headache. I don’t think I’m wrong, and I think my comment was a perfectly valid point to raise. If the sensibilities of HN readers and moderators will not tolerate it, then so be it.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#329
post #328
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you please stop posting flamebait to HN? We've already had to ask you this recently. We ban accounts that keep doing it, so please stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I don’t have a way to convince you that I’m posting in good faith, but for what it’s worth, I guarantee you that I’m not trolling or seeking to cause disruption. As others have pointed out, the traditional Western concept of the private-public division doesn’t exist in China. It is in fact similar to historical economic conditions in fascist Europe; specifically, the state-controlled labor unions (and ban on private…

The problem is with tossing classic provocations like "national socialism" into a thread without insulating them from what will otherwise be the classic effect: flamewar. If you have a thoughtful point to make, that's of course fine, but you need to pack it in flame retardant, because you're in a highly flammable zone here. Just as you'd take extra care with a campfire in a dry forest, or with matches around a gas station.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#330
post #189
post #99

There’s also something the Chinese state calls “fusion centres” which is one of the most interesting facets of this intelligence-industrial complex in China. Essentially the state decides, let’s say high tech cutting edge batteries for storing renewable energy is where they want to invest in. They gather a few companies into a building that can do it or are interested. They then have state representatives who effecti…

So govt bureaucrats are driving innovation? To the point where they create market leading mega corps. Is that the claim? Sounds like magic if you have ever met government bureaucrats.

You are thinking of bureaucrats in the western world. These are eunuchs working under the thumb of political appointees within the context of democratic politics. They are hedged in by expectations that they are there to perform a public service. In China, the people exist to serve the party, so there is a role reversal when it comes to who is in charge. This is how/why the government is able to force companies to come together and share their secrets.
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