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Who Owns Huawei?

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Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#191

Post by pergadad »

sgustard wrote: post #160
tthhuyid wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For perspective, there are 2.3 million African Americans in prison.

Absolutely a travesty, but still you're engaging in false equivalency. The difference in being jailed with or without some legal process is significant. Study up at https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/freedom-world-... and acknowledge that the US's score of 86/100 is a far cry from Canada's 99, but worlds ahead of China's 14.

Freedom House is a US charity though. Looking at any other report will still show China much lower in the ranking but the US also not really looking as good as the land of freedom might see itself.

How about a look at Reporters without borders, which ranks press freedom:

US #48 (behind Botswana, Child and Romania)

China #177 (of 180, so only ahead of Eritrea, NK and Turkmenistan)

Or this HRW report will be an interestjng read: https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2019/country-chapters/unite...

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#192

Post by pergadad »

joejerryronnie wrote: post #151
throwaway8879 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>By that premise, Norway controls Microsoft and Apple because they own part of the companies Even so, Norway's political/ideological/moral objectives are in line with the west's. There is a difference between the Norwegians having some influence in something, as opposed to the Chinese.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#193

Post by ragerino »

I find the other extreme, as in the USA, more dangerous. Therefore the question "Who owns the US government?" could be asked too.

Someone could look into example of Boeing and the FAA. The more we learn about 737-Max and 787 Dreamliner certification the more it's obvious that Boeing is running the FAA.

Another example is the FDA. Good example here is Monsanto. While it was under US ownership everything was fine. Once it got sold to Bayer, suddenly stuff is carcinogenic. What I want to say is, that everybody knew since more than a decade before the transaction, that the stuff is carcinogenic. This seems to me like the FAA was protecting Monsanto before it was sold off.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#195

Post by Engineering-MD »

nabla9 wrote: post #186
ordinaryradical wrote: post #5

The most informative comment I’ve heard about Chinese business is that one needs to take the western conception of state / military / corporation and chuck them out the window. In essence these are all descriptive functions of the same entity in China, and any apparent separation is just that—apparent. I know some may reply that, for example, Lockheed effectively lives at this nexus also. It’s a good argument, and pr…

To some extent has been true for every big country that has successfully become a first world country after the WWII devastation. After the WWII Japan, South Korea, and Germany all had trade policies where the government coordinated closely with big export sector companies. Japan was famous for copying everything. Japanese businessmen toured western factories as potential customers with cameras, went home and build t…

Do you have any further information on how this was done in Germany? It’s nit something I’ve heard much about before, and is contrary to what I imagined.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#196

Post by emtoor »

ordinaryradical wrote: post #5

The most informative comment I’ve heard about Chinese business is that one needs to take the western conception of state / military / corporation and chuck them out the window. In essence these are all descriptive functions of the same entity in China, and any apparent separation is just that—apparent. I know some may reply that, for example, Lockheed effectively lives at this nexus also. It’s a good argument, and pr…

Thanks that was very insightful from a western pov

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#197

Post by stevenhuang »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #178
spaceflunky wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Huawei has grown because it has been able to offer similar or better networking equipment as competitors for lower prices. You mean flat out copy Cisco and then undercut them in developing markets? In the early 2000s i remember seeing a Huawei manual that was a legit photo copy of a Cisco IOS manual with just the names blocked out.

They "flat-out copied" an implementation of strcmp. Not exactly Earth-shattering. Not as serious as copying, say, the entire Java API. Any evidence they copied Cisco hardware? Did they copy anything substantial?

You've accepted they've copied Cisco's manuals for one of their products yet question if they've copied Cisco's hardware... ?

Huawei's infamous approach to "acquiring technology" is undisputed. Literally ask anyone in the industry. Look at how they've ruined Nortel. See their behaviour at trade shows, taking apart competitors equipment to take pictures of their schematics. The evidence is out there, why don't you sift through? You might find a pattern.

I'm curious to know why this is all so hard for you to believe.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#198

Post by tempguy9999 »

ETHisso2017 wrote: post #147
watertom wrote: post #142

As usual with China we are focused on the wrong issue and asking the wrong questions. Who owns Huawei is irrelevant, who ultimately controls Huawei is the issue, but it’s a simple answer, the Chinese Government. I was in China on business, we were meeting the one of the largest and most successful tech companies in China. We were meeting with the Chairman/CEO and his team. Everyone was introduced except one man, ever…

This sounds more like an urban legend than an actual event.

If you are casting doubt on the poster then outright call him a liar and explain why. Otherwise...

> I was in China on business

...assume goodwill and take him at his word.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#199

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

stevenhuang wrote: post #197
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They "flat-out copied" an implementation of strcmp. Not exactly Earth-shattering. Not as serious as copying, say, the entire Java API. Any evidence they copied Cisco hardware? Did they copy anything substantial?

You've accepted they've copied Cisco's manuals for one of their products yet question if they've copied Cisco's hardware... ? Huawei's infamous approach to "acquiring technology" is undisputed. Literally ask anyone in the industry. Look at how they've ruined Nortel. See their behaviour at trade shows, taking apart competitors equipment to take pictures of their schematics. The evidence is out there, why don't you sif…

In the same way that I accept Google copied Oracle's max function. If that's the worst that anyone can pin on a multi-billion-dollar-revenue company, it's pretty squeaky clean.

The Nortel accusations are completely evidence-free. Nortel collapsed because of the bursting of the tech bubble, mixed in with a fair dose of "creative accounting."

> I'm curious to know why this is all so hard for you to believe.

Because there's zero evidence for any of it. There's a general impression that's been created by American media about Huawei being a spying operation, but no evidence.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#200

Post by tyingq »

ordinaryradical wrote: post #5

The most informative comment I’ve heard about Chinese business is that one needs to take the western conception of state / military / corporation and chuck them out the window. In essence these are all descriptive functions of the same entity in China, and any apparent separation is just that—apparent. I know some may reply that, for example, Lockheed effectively lives at this nexus also. It’s a good argument, and pr…

" know some may reply that, for example, Lockheed effectively lives at this nexus also."

Probably similar for Northrup Grumman, Raytheon, Bell Helicopter, Dyncorp, Navistar, and others as well.

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