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One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

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Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#71

Post by rubber_duck »

DavidHm wrote: post #57
msl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I have learned from reading (and occasionally taking part in) these discussions is that no, it is not . The US is different . It is too big, too small, too densely populated, too sparsely populated, too hot, too cold, too dry and too humid for anything to work. It does not matter if something appears to work most everywhere else. It will not work anywhere in the US.

A bit cynical, but not unfair. Many people in the US persistently cling to the idea that solution implemented and working (albeit imperfectly) in other parts of the world will not work in the US due to XYZ. Which in a way, is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Solutions implemented in the rest of the world will not work in the US because most people don't believe they will, or that the US is not capable of radical change (t…

Well I mean comparing US to individual European countries usually ignores the fact that most of the countries quoted have homogenous population with numbers closer to large US cities like New York than the entire US. If you compare US to EU you see that EU is less rosy with it's own underdeveloped regions that and the difference between richest and poorest country in EU is probably worse than the difference between states in US, relocating between states in US is simpler, etc. etc. Also decision making at EU level Europe is waay harder than the US. So instead of talking US in aggregate why not do those changes state level where it makes sense - just like they are done in the Europe.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#72

Post by dtwest »

msl wrote: post #40
mac01021 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Boston's climate very similar to most of Germany's?

One thing I have learned from reading (and occasionally taking part in) these discussions is that no, it is not . The US is different . It is too big, too small, too densely populated, too sparsely populated, too hot, too cold, too dry and too humid for anything to work. It does not matter if something appears to work most everywhere else. It will not work anywhere in the US.

Ironically, it is actually hotter, it is actually colder, it's all of those things you sarcastically point out. Except being too small or dense, who told you that?

I'm from the American Midwest and I'm currently in Northern Europe. The difference is huge. The density issue of American suburbs is real, and the phenomenon is relatively rare globally. Go check out Google Earth. How do you not see it?

The weather is also more extreme in most places of the US than Europe. When Europeans tell people in Wisconsin to "just take an electric scooter to the metro station" they understandably laugh it off as ridiculous.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#73

Post by Dumblydorr »

andrepd wrote: post #60
joe_the_user wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boston is different from this in a whole variety of ways. 1) Americans just in general tend to drive their kids to school dues to fear of child abductions and related ever-present paranoia. 2) Boston's transportation system is broken on just about every levels. The street organization is irrational, derived haphazardly from ad-hoc pre-auto paths. The public transit system was also built in an ad-hoc and is at level w…

>The street organization is irrational, derived haphazardly from ad-hoc pre-auto paths. Isn't thus true of any European city?

Not any, many were rebuilt after bombings in WW2. Even so, Germany is known for splendid trains, meanwhile Bostons trains are notoriously bad. My old company was off the red line and numerous employees were delayed at least once a week due to the red line sucking.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#74

Post by dx034 »

dtwest wrote: post #72
msl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I have learned from reading (and occasionally taking part in) these discussions is that no, it is not . The US is different . It is too big, too small, too densely populated, too sparsely populated, too hot, too cold, too dry and too humid for anything to work. It does not matter if something appears to work most everywhere else. It will not work anywhere in the US.

Ironically, it is actually hotter, it is actually colder, it's all of those things you sarcastically point out. Except being too small or dense, who told you that? I'm from the American Midwest and I'm currently in Northern Europe. The difference is huge. The density issue of American suburbs is real, and the phenomenon is relatively rare globally. Go check out Google Earth. How do you not see it? The weather is also…

That's true for the Midwest but not necessarily for Boston. The temperature range is a bit larger in Boston but German cities can also have >100F weeks in summer and several weeks of snow in winter.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#75

Post by deskamess »

yardstick wrote: post #33
joe_the_user wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I remember this story. Back then when I dug into it, it was a real spin-versus-spin situation. Sure, when you introduce an approach that suddenly creates considerable inconvenience for some population of parents, sure they complain (no one likes having to drop off kids at ~ vaguely recalling ~ 10 am and pick at 5 pm, sheesh, it was something terrible). Some large portion of working people are fairly dependent thei…

For elementary students apparently “Hundreds of families were facing a 9:30 to 7:15 a.m. shift.” That’s a significant change in wake up time. Yeah, I’m not keen on that. It’s a non-starter.

Wait... I thought they were going to later start times? The article indicated that studies showed start time before 8am were not helpful.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#76

Post by Dumblydorr »

msl wrote: post #40
mac01021 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Boston's climate very similar to most of Germany's?

One thing I have learned from reading (and occasionally taking part in) these discussions is that no, it is not . The US is different . It is too big, too small, too densely populated, too sparsely populated, too hot, too cold, too dry and too humid for anything to work. It does not matter if something appears to work most everywhere else. It will not work anywhere in the US.

Europe is warmed by certain climate processes in the ocean, its indeed possible that a more northerly latitude like England or Iceland can in fact have less bad winter weather due to ocean currents. The Boston area does have more consistent solar illumination due to its southerly position, FWIW, so USA isn't all bad.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#77

Post by jimktrains2 »

malandrew wrote: post #23

$2000 per student per year is insane for a bus service. That's like $10 a day. You could probably UberPool every kid at that price since you'd have a high utilization rate for two narrow 30 min to 1 hour windows each day.

Those busses are also used for school activities such as field trips.

An hour window each day would be crazy! Parents plan their work schedule around being able to get kids out the door at the same time each day.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#78

Post by mattlondon »

Interesting - so is it "a thing" in the US that the city runs a dedicated bus service for all schools/students? Quite a surprise for me considering how poor people say public transport is in general in the US?

In the UK some schools run their own bus things (in the same way that Goolge, Facebook et al do in San Francisco), but most of the other schools just get by with the public buses.

There is often some coordination to make sure buses stop at/very near schools, and they may send extra ones at certain times - e.g. there were often several buses parked up and waiting empty at my school so they could be filled at the end of the school day, but any member of the public was then able to get onboard once it was on its usual route after that, and if you were late getting out (e.g. detention/sports etc) you'd just wait at the stop outside the school for the usual bus on its usual route to come by.

What do the US school buses and their drivers do for the rest of the day and on weekends? Just sit idle?

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#79

Post by chaosbutters »

ndjskska wrote: post #27

In Germany we're assigned to the nearest school. I remember walking to school in elementary school, later taking the bike for 20 min or public transportation. I don't live in a particularly dense area. Is Boston too sparsely populated to have schools in walking or biking distance? Seems that we accept distances of 1-2 km for elementary school walks. (0.6 to 1.2 miles)

idk about Boston, but in Florida, I walked ~1km to elementary school, 15 minute bus to middle school (11-13 yrs old), and then had a 40 km drive/bus to high school.

While if I had stayed and lived in michigan, I would have been 1km walk from elementary, middle, and high school. With a university 5km away.

It all depends on the US city and state and how that community developed/organized.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#80

Post by nkrisc »

mattlondon wrote: post #78

Interesting - so is it "a thing" in the US that the city runs a dedicated bus service for all schools/students? Quite a surprise for me considering how poor people say public transport is in general in the US? In the UK some schools run their own bus things (in the same way that Goolge, Facebook et al do in San Francisco), but most of the other schools just get by with the public buses. There is often some coordinati…

Many schools have a bus service because the general public transport is that poor. In some areas you have no other public transport. So either someone drives the kid to school or they don't go because they can't walk there.
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