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GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

wsj.com

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Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#41

Post by ecpottinger »

MegaButts wrote: post #25
hnModsRDanger wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone in automotive, if anything breaks on your car, it's worst case scenario. In 2019, people don't want their cars to break at all. Even a trivial matter might have you lose a customer.

Are you a product manager, a marketer, an accountant, an engineer, or what? I've often been surprised to find out how the sausage is made in most businesses where I quickly learned making the best product is rarely a goal (and sometimes this is actually the right decision since you should focus on "good enough" for most applications) and that planned obsolescence is a real thing. In the case of autos, many of the dea…

All I can say, as a person who has been interested in electric cars for some time, when I went to my local GM dealer I was surprised at how much lies he used to try and discourage me from buying a Bolt.

Worse, when he started saying there were no local charger available he refuse to do a web search to prove his point since the last time I looked there were plenty available locally.

I just walked out, on the other hand I could have bought the car CASH if he had not lied.

The dealers are more than 50% of the problem!

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#42

Post by Someone1234 »

neogodless wrote: post #24
Someone1234 wrote: post #2

To fully electric. As the article says, both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. Now they're shifted that effort over to electric because the incentives are better for them. The only companies trying to make hybrids for real are Toyota and Honda. Everyone else is just pumping out low effort compliance vehicles. It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. I'd lov…

While I mostly agree with your statements, I think you could argue that Ford is up there with Honda, if not ahead of them in supporting (if not pushing) hybrids. The Fusion hybrid outsells the Accord hybrid (at least in the U.S.) by a wide margin, and not far behind the Prius. https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10301

2020 will be the last model year for the Fusion Hybrid (production will end in 2021):

https://www.autonews.com/sales/ford-says-fusion-output-will-...

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#43

Post by neogodless »

toast0 wrote: post #33
neogodless wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I mostly agree with your statements, I think you could argue that Ford is up there with Honda, if not ahead of them in supporting (if not pushing) hybrids. The Fusion hybrid outsells the Accord hybrid (at least in the U.S.) by a wide margin, and not far behind the Prius. https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10301

Where does the fusion fit in Ford's plan to build Mustangs and trucks only? [1] [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-stop-making-all-...

Honestly you're right. While they've been selling more and more Fusion hybrids every year, they have largely shifted plans away from the sedan. My bad - not sure where they're going next. They might get behind hybrids, but the past performance is not indicative of the future!

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#44

Post by kgwgk »

amyjess wrote: post #35
floatrock wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully not as the "Volt". It's a shame the car didn't work out, but the Bolt/Volt naming thing was a source of endless confusion.

The most annoying thing about that naming scheme is that Chevy also makes the Spark, which is 100% gasoline-powered. What was their rationale in greenlighting that name?

Cars have had spark plugs for over one century anyway.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#45

Post by dsfyu404ed »

amyjess wrote: post #35
floatrock wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully not as the "Volt". It's a shame the car didn't work out, but the Bolt/Volt naming thing was a source of endless confusion.

The most annoying thing about that naming scheme is that Chevy also makes the Spark, which is 100% gasoline-powered. What was their rationale in greenlighting that name?

The spark was being sold under other names since long before the volt or the Bolt. When they started calling the Spark the Spark the Bolt was still several years off and they certainly didn't have a name for it at that point. The choice of "Spark" coincided with they giving all their small cars a bunch of active sounding names.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#46

Post by rconti »

yardie wrote: post #12
Someone1234 wrote: post #2

To fully electric. As the article says, both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. Now they're shifted that effort over to electric because the incentives are better for them. The only companies trying to make hybrids for real are Toyota and Honda. Everyone else is just pumping out low effort compliance vehicles. It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. I'd lov…

> both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. At one point I was completely fascinated with the Fiat 500e. Here was an electric car that was stylish, quirky, and could be had on the used market at a great price. But as I got further into it I realized that FCA hated producing this car. Its only reason to exist is to allow them to produce more pollutant vehicles as a regulatory balance. And if it…

Why does it matter to you, as the consumer, that FCA hated producing the car? It's still cheap to buy and operate.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#47

Post by cmrdporcupine »

Well, I love my Volt. Maybe it will be a collectors car some day. Amazing piece of engineering. I charge at work and at home and use gas about once every two months.

I don't have "range anxiety", I have "range requirements"; no way I'm going on an 8 hour drive to go skiing in the Adirondacks or in Vermont with a pure electric.

A pure BEV won't meet my needs.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#48

Post by freehunter »

Nasrudith wrote: post #27
btilly wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Expensive is code for, "We lost money selling them, and only bothered because we got tax write-offs." In short, expensive means expensive. They cost a lot to make.

Isn't that also a bit tautological given how fixed costs are divided over units produced? If they produced and sold more they would be cheaper. Of course that assumes they would sell well if they put more effort into doing so.

That works if they're losing money due to not selling enough volume to recoup the startup costs. However if they're actually selling them for less money than they cost to make, every unit sold is just adding to the loss.

If it costs $1,000,000 to design a car and I sell that car for $30,000 and I sell 33 cars, I've lost $10k. But just selling one more car will turn a profit.

On the other hand if that car costs $32,000 to make and I'm selling it for $30,000... GM has long been in the business, for whatever reason, of selling cars below cost [1]. And for the Volt, it's more like selling a $40k car that actually costs $80k to manufacture [2], not even taking engineering and marketing costs as a factor.

Selling more Bolts and Volts would hurt GM, not help.

[1] https://www.hotcars.com/gm-admits-bolt-not-profitable/

[2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelinemaynard/2012/09/10/stu...

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#49

Post by d1zzy »

Someone1234 wrote: post #10
cowmix wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you located? The Chevy Bolt is being offered with pretty good incentives. Between those prices, gas savings, etc. Getting a Bolt might make sense.

It starts at $36,620 and has up to $3,750[0] in federal tax credits. Making it a $30K+ Subcompact non-luxury vehicle. It doesn't make sense. [0] https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml

It used to be much higher tax credit, if you purchased an EV a while back in CA you got around $10k total (federal + state) tax credits which was VERY significant (it explains why you can find very cheap second hand EVs, the 10k credit is already accounted for in the second hand pricing).

It's the general high price of new EVs that kept me away from buying one when I was in the market last year, I'm also the type that likes to pay for their car in cash. But second hand EVs are definitely a very intriguing choice for a second/commute-only car. You can get $7k electric Smart for very low mileage (under 10k).

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