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GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

wsj.com

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Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#21

Post by Mathnerd314 »

lukifer wrote: post #3

> Later, [GM] found some success with the Chevy Volt, a plug-in hybrid that runs on electric power but also has a backup gas engine. The car was too expensive, though... As a happy Volt owner (I've yet to met one who didn't love theirs), I can't help but wonder if "expensive" is code for "lost service revenue because the thing is too dang low maintenance and reliable". ;)

It sounds like the production cost was too high, probably also because of the lithium-ion batteries: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chevy-volt-discontinued-chevrol...

> "While it was a financial loser, it did what was intended," said retired GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz, who shepherded the Volt into production. "We viewed it as a stepping stone to full electrics, which were totally out of reach due to the then-astronomical cost of lithium-ion batteries."

> GM needed to stop making it due in part to changing consumer preferences for SUVs, he said. The company also lost money on every Volt, cash that is needed for research on autonomous vehicles and more advanced electric cars, he said.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#22

Post by toomuchtodo »

yardie wrote: post #12
Someone1234 wrote: post #2

To fully electric. As the article says, both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. Now they're shifted that effort over to electric because the incentives are better for them. The only companies trying to make hybrids for real are Toyota and Honda. Everyone else is just pumping out low effort compliance vehicles. It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. I'd lov…

> both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. At one point I was completely fascinated with the Fiat 500e. Here was an electric car that was stylish, quirky, and could be had on the used market at a great price. But as I got further into it I realized that FCA hated producing this car. Its only reason to exist is to allow them to produce more pollutant vehicles as a regulatory balance. And if it…

Funny enough, FCA is paying Tesla billions of dollars in ZEV credits so FCA can still sell cars in Europe.

EDIT: Please buy that Tesla and support a company who actually cares about selling EVs.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/8/18300393/tesla-fiat-chrysl...

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#23

Post by ChamindaV »

madengr wrote: post #7

I read recently that Honda has stopped all Clarity sales except for CA, especially since the Volt is no longer available. That is a shame because it is a really nice car and fills in the gap between pure EV and a hybrid. 40 miles on full electric, but a gas engine run at peak efficiency for long trips.

It's a failed engineering product, Honda is selling for credits. It weighs over 4k lbs, almost 700lbs more than Prius prime or Ioniq plugin.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#24

Post by neogodless »

Someone1234 wrote: post #2

To fully electric. As the article says, both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. Now they're shifted that effort over to electric because the incentives are better for them. The only companies trying to make hybrids for real are Toyota and Honda. Everyone else is just pumping out low effort compliance vehicles. It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. I'd lov…

While I mostly agree with your statements, I think you could argue that Ford is up there with Honda, if not ahead of them in supporting (if not pushing) hybrids. The Fusion hybrid outsells the Accord hybrid (at least in the U.S.) by a wide margin, and not far behind the Prius.

https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10301

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#25

Post by MegaButts »

hnModsRDanger wrote: post #14
lukifer wrote: post #3

> Later, [GM] found some success with the Chevy Volt, a plug-in hybrid that runs on electric power but also has a backup gas engine. The car was too expensive, though... As a happy Volt owner (I've yet to met one who didn't love theirs), I can't help but wonder if "expensive" is code for "lost service revenue because the thing is too dang low maintenance and reliable". ;)

As someone in automotive, if anything breaks on your car, it's worst case scenario. In 2019, people don't want their cars to break at all. Even a trivial matter might have you lose a customer.

Are you a product manager, a marketer, an accountant, an engineer, or what? I've often been surprised to find out how the sausage is made in most businesses where I quickly learned making the best product is rarely a goal (and sometimes this is actually the right decision since you should focus on "good enough" for most applications) and that planned obsolescence is a real thing. In the case of autos, many of the dealerships in the US make most of their money on maintenance. And the dealerships have a lot of influence on what cars sell and what should be sold by their respective motherships.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#27

Post by Nasrudith »

btilly wrote: post #16
lukifer wrote: post #3

> Later, [GM] found some success with the Chevy Volt, a plug-in hybrid that runs on electric power but also has a backup gas engine. The car was too expensive, though... As a happy Volt owner (I've yet to met one who didn't love theirs), I can't help but wonder if "expensive" is code for "lost service revenue because the thing is too dang low maintenance and reliable". ;)

No. Expensive is code for, "We lost money selling them, and only bothered because we got tax write-offs." In short, expensive means expensive. They cost a lot to make.

Isn't that also a bit tautological given how fixed costs are divided over units produced? If they produced and sold more they would be cheaper. Of course that assumes they would sell well if they put more effort into doing so.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#28

Post by rootusrootus »

throw0101a wrote: post #26

My parents' house does not have a garage or a driveway, how exactly will the only-full-EV future work for them? Where are they supposed to charge?

At a supercharger/equivalent. We're getting to the point where EVs have enough range that they can be charged on nearly the same schedule as a gas car is refueled.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#30

Post by microcolonel »

btilly wrote: post #16
lukifer wrote: post #3

> Later, [GM] found some success with the Chevy Volt, a plug-in hybrid that runs on electric power but also has a backup gas engine. The car was too expensive, though... As a happy Volt owner (I've yet to met one who didn't love theirs), I can't help but wonder if "expensive" is code for "lost service revenue because the thing is too dang low maintenance and reliable". ;)

No. Expensive is code for, "We lost money selling them, and only bothered because we got tax write-offs." In short, expensive means expensive. They cost a lot to make.

Although technology has taken huge leaps, particularly in the specific energy of batteries and combustion engines, after the 2000 Honda Insight, the first new model car (in Canada) to match or exceed the Insight's efficiency came in 2017(!) with the Hyundai Ioniq.

From my perspective, energy prices and auto regulations are the biggest reasons it took that long.

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