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I Paid a Bribe

ipaidabribe.com

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Re: I Paid a Bribe

#71

Post by mcantor »

poet wrote: post #45
bguthrie wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American who has lived in India, I am with Guelo. The "everyday folks" the parent refers to--for most of us, (relatively) wealthy people with white-collar jobs living in rich Western societies--constitute some 5% of the world's wealthiest people. Most human beings living today are not in a position to blow $20 (Indian gross income per capita, per World Bank, 2008: $1040/yr) on a perk, let alone a bribe for some…

You're argument is orthogonal to my point. I'm aware of the wealth differences. I see similar differences quite often in the inner city of Chicago. One overarching trend among the less well off that Guelo demonstrates is a venomance that gets in the way of cooperation and progress. As an example, I have seen young children refuse to be taught by quite capable teachers because the teacher is white and wears jeans that…

Unrelated: I am mystified by your competent use of the term "orthogonal" coming just two words after you used "you're" instead of "your." That is just bizarre!

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#72

Post by endtime »

Kilimanjaro wrote: post #63

I'll say it a thousand times, corruption is the cancer of all societies and we really need to find the cure as priority number one. Before going to mars, before sea-steading, before feeding africa.

You might want to stop saying that, since it doesn't make any sense. There's no more a global cure for corruption than there is a global cure for people not being nice. Not everyone is going to behave how you want them to, and there's no reasonable alternative.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#73

Post by kscaldef »

hugh3 wrote: post #69
leelin wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I'm sorry you found my comments so offensive and insensitive (and for pseudo-hijacking). I understand this community to enjoy discussing hacks, both computer and non-computer related, and the underground world of tipping is one of the more mysterious and fascinating classes of hacks in my eyes. What I'm requesting actually isn't so different from what the authors of this site ultimately want; more transparency a…

Actually I'm in favour of a free market for kidneys. Some folks have two kidneys and need money. Some folks have no kidneys and plenty of money. We shouldn't forbid them from figuring this one out.

You left out the people with no kidneys and no money. They are the reason people frown on selling organs. (That, and the question of whether all the donors would actually be voluntary.)

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#74

Post by spraveen80 »

larrik wrote: post #42
statictype wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they really shamed? I would like to believe this is true but I have trouble coming to terms with the idea that people taking bribes have any shame at all. Unrelated, The 5th Pillar (the organization that came up with the zero-rupee note) seems to have an office building very close to mine. I've seen the bill pasted on the back of cars and can see their wifi network from where I am.

It's easy to think that everyone accepting (or even demanding) bribes just decided one day that they wanted to be evil. In reality, they may very well have been pressured into it by their environment, or from fears that their peers will rat them out if they aren't participating. I'm not saying they'd be right or should be pitied, but it'd certainly be possible for them to be shamed.

It is a systemic problem. Let me give an example where reasonable number of people will laugh at you if you don't bribe your way out of a harmless situation.

Road infrastructure is sorely lacking in India which results in crowded streets. A huge percentage of drivers violate traffic laws everyday to gain even the slightest advantage over fellow roadsters. If the person gets pulled over, what is the best thing to do in that situation: go to the nearby police station, wait for a few hours, pay the fine legally or bribe the cop and get on with your travel? Which would you choose? In this case the person who violated traffic is almost begging for the traffic cop to take a bribe so that he can be on his way.

Same situation permeates every public office. Do not underestimate the problem caused by people who are willing to pay a bribe to get preferential service. As long as such people exist, people who accept bribes cannot be shamed into not accepting it.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#75

Post by silverbax88 »

hugh3 wrote: post #69
leelin wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I'm sorry you found my comments so offensive and insensitive (and for pseudo-hijacking). I understand this community to enjoy discussing hacks, both computer and non-computer related, and the underground world of tipping is one of the more mysterious and fascinating classes of hacks in my eyes. What I'm requesting actually isn't so different from what the authors of this site ultimately want; more transparency a…

Actually I'm in favour of a free market for kidneys. Some folks have two kidneys and need money. Some folks have no kidneys and plenty of money. We shouldn't forbid them from figuring this one out.

I could possibly obtain many kidneys, in return for plenty of money. In fact, I believe this is the whole point of not having a free market for body parts.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#76

Post by orangecat »

kscaldef wrote: post #73
hugh3 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I'm in favour of a free market for kidneys. Some folks have two kidneys and need money. Some folks have no kidneys and plenty of money. We shouldn't forbid them from figuring this one out.

You left out the people with no kidneys and no money. They are the reason people frown on selling organs. (That, and the question of whether all the donors would actually be voluntary.)

They're in need of charity regardless; allowing compensation doesn't change that, and would likely make the required charity less expensive by increasing the supply.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#77

Post by ergo98 »

burgerbrain wrote: post #17
guelo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, instead of it being a site where your wealthy greedy self could gain a meaningless personal advantage over others it is a site that is trying to make the world a better place for everybody. I know it is useless for "everyday folks" from your class, we'll try harder next time.

Tipping low-wage customer service workers for unadvertised services and favours is now some sort of evil "class" issue that indicates greed and corruption? Do you get mad when other diners at your favourite restaurant tip better than you and get friendlier service for their trouble? Give me a break.

>Tipping low-wage customer service workers for unadvertised services and favours is now some sort of evil "class" issue that indicates greed and corruption?

It is absolutely corruption. There is no question about it.

Sure, the corruption is from a less powerful position, but the morals and outcomes are largely the same: Someone is selling privileges they have no right to sell, and the same mentality is the mentality that allows corruption in public office.

"Do you get mad when other diners at your favourite restaurant tip better than you and get friendlier service for their trouble?"

What a terrible example. Tipping occurs at the end of the transaction, and is intended as a reward for good service. If you had to pay the server before getting served, and it decided the level of care and concern you would get, I am quite confident that it would be forcefully abolished by every restaurant immediately.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#78

Post by Symmetry »

larrik wrote: post #42
statictype wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they really shamed? I would like to believe this is true but I have trouble coming to terms with the idea that people taking bribes have any shame at all. Unrelated, The 5th Pillar (the organization that came up with the zero-rupee note) seems to have an office building very close to mine. I've seen the bill pasted on the back of cars and can see their wifi network from where I am.

It's easy to think that everyone accepting (or even demanding) bribes just decided one day that they wanted to be evil. In reality, they may very well have been pressured into it by their environment, or from fears that their peers will rat them out if they aren't participating. I'm not saying they'd be right or should be pitied, but it'd certainly be possible for them to be shamed.

But there are also cultures that say that someone who doesn't demand a bribe is selfishly turning down money he could use to support his relatives out of fear of punishment for bribe taking.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#79

Post by xyzzyb »

ergo98 wrote: post #77
burgerbrain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping low-wage customer service workers for unadvertised services and favours is now some sort of evil "class" issue that indicates greed and corruption? Do you get mad when other diners at your favourite restaurant tip better than you and get friendlier service for their trouble? Give me a break.

>Tipping low-wage customer service workers for unadvertised services and favours is now some sort of evil "class" issue that indicates greed and corruption? It is absolutely corruption. There is no question about it. Sure, the corruption is from a less powerful position, but the morals and outcomes are largely the same: Someone is selling privileges they have no right to sell , and the same mentality is the mentality…

It works that way when you order pizza online with a credit card.

Since you enter the tip in advance the driver knows it. A bigger tip upfront (yes, you can still tip with cash) gets you a faster pizza, nicer service, and occasionally additional perks like extra sauces, etc.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#80

Post by gnosis »

poet wrote: post #53
igravious wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Innocuous? Don't make me laugh. I don't see this as spitting venom or that the poster has a huge chip on their shoulder - that's rather an extreme characterization. My first thought on seeing the title for the site was that it was a project to try to reduce corruption and bribery. Because I was curious I clicked through to discover more. Nicely designed site, tackling a real social ill which obviously affects the poo…

As far as the donation goes, my conscious is clear. I donate a big piece of my income to charities and my family and I work with thousands of impoverished kids in the inner city of Chicago every day. Based on my experience, characterizing the poster as having a chip on his shoulder is accurate. I run into this problem all the time when working with those less well off than me and it's a serious problem. It's a signif…

First, it's "conscience", not "conscious".

Second, the word "innocuous" means "harmless", not "not intended to offend".

It's quite obvious that the original comment was not intended to offend anyone. The guy who made it was probably oblivious to its potential offensiveness.

But that doesn't mean it was harmless. He was basically advocating making bribery easier, which is not only offensive to many people (no matter what his intentions were), but could very well make the world worse if people start acting to make what he's advocating a reality.

That said, kudos to your volunteering efforts and donations. More people should follow your example.

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