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I Paid a Bribe

ipaidabribe.com

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Re: I Paid a Bribe

#41

Post by bguthrie »

poet wrote: post #30
guelo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, instead of it being a site where your wealthy greedy self could gain a meaningless personal advantage over others it is a site that is trying to make the world a better place for everybody. I know it is useless for "everyday folks" from your class, we'll try harder next time.

Five minutes ago I was looking for a donation link on your site, but I completely lost interest after reading this post. The person you replied to grew up in a lifestyle and culture different than you. This doesn't mean that he's greedy or that his motivations are meaningless. You seem like you've got a huge chip on your shoulder and that's not going to help you in the long run. Why would people be interested in enga…

As an American who has lived in India, I am with Guelo.

The "everyday folks" the parent refers to--for most of us, (relatively) wealthy people with white-collar jobs living in rich Western societies--constitute some 5% of the world's wealthiest people. Most human beings living today are not in a position to blow $20 (Indian gross income per capita, per World Bank, 2008: $1040/yr) on a perk, let alone a bribe for something as simple as applying for benefits or starting a business. That's where the outrage comes from.

Education is an important part of changing that culture, and they deserve your donation.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#42

Post by larrik »

statictype wrote: post #16
rosser wrote: post #8

I still really like the idea of the zero-Rupee notes circulating in India, created specifically to present to government officials asking for bribes. Apparently, in many cases the official is so shamed on being handed the nil bill that the bribe is effectively paid. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1353796

Are they really shamed? I would like to believe this is true but I have trouble coming to terms with the idea that people taking bribes have any shame at all. Unrelated, The 5th Pillar (the organization that came up with the zero-rupee note) seems to have an office building very close to mine. I've seen the bill pasted on the back of cars and can see their wifi network from where I am.

It's easy to think that everyone accepting (or even demanding) bribes just decided one day that they wanted to be evil. In reality, they may very well have been pressured into it by their environment, or from fears that their peers will rat them out if they aren't participating.

I'm not saying they'd be right or should be pitied, but it'd certainly be possible for them to be shamed.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#43

Post by seabee »

poet wrote: post #30
guelo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, instead of it being a site where your wealthy greedy self could gain a meaningless personal advantage over others it is a site that is trying to make the world a better place for everybody. I know it is useless for "everyday folks" from your class, we'll try harder next time.

Five minutes ago I was looking for a donation link on your site, but I completely lost interest after reading this post. The person you replied to grew up in a lifestyle and culture different than you. This doesn't mean that he's greedy or that his motivations are meaningless. You seem like you've got a huge chip on your shoulder and that's not going to help you in the long run. Why would people be interested in enga…

People can get angry over something that another person would think nothing of. Even something as simple as throwing away a half-eaten candy bar. Just because a man is brought up to do something wrong, it does not absolve him of the fact it is wrong.

That 'innocuous' comment has enough social subtext for people of certain viewpoints to find it repulsive. Like, say, a guy running an anti-bribery campaign.

Personally, I don't begrudge people paying more to get better service/food, but extravagant tipping for better service in a situation where people are expecting to be served fairly sends a strong signal: "I am too good for your rules."

Not everyone has the same outlook on life as you do.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#44

Post by lhnn »

andybak wrote: post #25
leelin wrote: post #7

Darn, this seems like a site meant to uncover and curb corruption. I was hoping it was a site where everyday folks share their stories about when it helps to give a nice tip or innocently grease a few palms. Well known cases would be the "$20 trick" you give to the hotel clerk to get a free room upgrade. Once during an airport emergency, I gave two $10 bills to the bellhop to cut the long line at my hotel taxi stand…

It might be regarded as ill-mannered to hijack a thread about a serious subject that affects the lives billions with your thoughts on a subject that mildly inconveniences the relatively well-off..?

I made a smartass remark, but seriously: That sentence does not need a question mark.

Your point stands, however.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#45

Post by poet »

bguthrie wrote: post #41
poet wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Five minutes ago I was looking for a donation link on your site, but I completely lost interest after reading this post. The person you replied to grew up in a lifestyle and culture different than you. This doesn't mean that he's greedy or that his motivations are meaningless. You seem like you've got a huge chip on your shoulder and that's not going to help you in the long run. Why would people be interested in enga…

As an American who has lived in India, I am with Guelo. The "everyday folks" the parent refers to--for most of us, (relatively) wealthy people with white-collar jobs living in rich Western societies--constitute some 5% of the world's wealthiest people. Most human beings living today are not in a position to blow $20 (Indian gross income per capita, per World Bank, 2008: $1040/yr) on a perk, let alone a bribe for some…

You're argument is orthogonal to my point. I'm aware of the wealth differences. I see similar differences quite often in the inner city of Chicago. One overarching trend among the less well off that Guelo demonstrates is a venomance that gets in the way of cooperation and progress. As an example, I have seen young children refuse to be taught by quite capable teachers because the teacher is white and wears jeans that cost more than $20. There's an unfounded resentment here and it needs to be named. It's as if an apology is expected for being born into the middle class. The hate here is unhealthy because ultimately the person doing the hating is the one that loses.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#46

Post by [deleted] »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #35
sp332 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they report it, there's a spot on the tax return for "tips" specifically.

>Of course they report it, there's a spot on the tax return for "tips" specifically. And there's a sign at the side of the road with the speed limit ...

[deleted]

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#47

Post by poet »

seabee wrote: post #43
poet wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Five minutes ago I was looking for a donation link on your site, but I completely lost interest after reading this post. The person you replied to grew up in a lifestyle and culture different than you. This doesn't mean that he's greedy or that his motivations are meaningless. You seem like you've got a huge chip on your shoulder and that's not going to help you in the long run. Why would people be interested in enga…

People can get angry over something that another person would think nothing of. Even something as simple as throwing away a half-eaten candy bar. Just because a man is brought up to do something wrong, it does not absolve him of the fact it is wrong. That 'innocuous' comment has enough social subtext for people of certain viewpoints to find it repulsive. Like, say, a guy running an anti-bribery campaign. Personally,…

We can play this game all the way down to the most impoverished society on the planet. A poor Indian could find it reprehensible that a middle class American will throw away a candy bar. A starving African could find it reprehensible that a poor Indian will use comparatively expensive spices in his food. After all, why not eat the most tasteless food possible and then donate the extra money? The point is, unless you are from the most impoverished society on the planet, you are doing something that someone somewhere could find reprehensible because of social subtext.

The question needs to be asked, where does this game get us? Nowhere. All good people are ultimately batting for the same team. Sure, truly evil people should be named and shamed, but that's not what happened in this thread. Guelo picked a fight because he thought he had the right to, and he doesn't. At least, not with Leelin. Hateful dialogue has absolutely zero positive benefit and often hurts the person doing the hating: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2067014.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#48

Post by pessimizer »

radu_floricica wrote: post #14
keerthi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe if there is a public uprising against the government and the authorities, they will be forced to answer these issues. Wikileaks faclites this by publishing the documents through all types of medium which cannot be censored by the government. As a citizen you can also contribute by spreading it more and more.. My best bet would be to spread it in schools and colleges as they seem to be fearless lot. An upris…

I'm Romanian. We're not as bad as Mexic, in the sense we don't have drug lords and piles of bodies, but we definitely don't lose in corruption. I've spent not a little time thinking about what can be done. I know the problem (pretty much everybody knows the problem) - politicians suck. They're either corrupt and incompetent, or just corrupt. Problem is, we really really don't have any alternatives. There is absolutel…

I saw a great film that came out this year called Kapitalism: Our Improved Formula that paints an really dire picture of the current state of Romanian corruption, and if any country has had a public uprising against the state of their government, Romania qualifies.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#49

Post by igravious »

poet wrote: post #30
guelo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, instead of it being a site where your wealthy greedy self could gain a meaningless personal advantage over others it is a site that is trying to make the world a better place for everybody. I know it is useless for "everyday folks" from your class, we'll try harder next time.

Five minutes ago I was looking for a donation link on your site, but I completely lost interest after reading this post. The person you replied to grew up in a lifestyle and culture different than you. This doesn't mean that he's greedy or that his motivations are meaningless. You seem like you've got a huge chip on your shoulder and that's not going to help you in the long run. Why would people be interested in enga…

Innocuous? Don't make me laugh. I don't see this as spitting venom or that the poster has a huge chip on their shoulder - that's rather an extreme characterization.

My first thought on seeing the title for the site was that it was a project to try to reduce corruption and bribery. Because I was curious I clicked through to discover more. Nicely designed site, tackling a real social ill which obviously affects the poor more than it does the rich. Must have taken some time to get up and running, and as it's not a profit-driven thing, you'd need to be fairly passionate about what you're in it for.

And then along comes this guy making asinine comments about greasing palms to get the jump on people in queues and other trivial frippery - that he even presumed it was a site that would give those with fat-wallets a few hints at how to snare a few perks is telling.

Given your interpretation of this conversation I doubt you would have donated at all.

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