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I Paid a Bribe

ipaidabribe.com

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Re: I Paid a Bribe

#61

Post by bguthrie »

poet wrote: post #45
bguthrie wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American who has lived in India, I am with Guelo. The "everyday folks" the parent refers to--for most of us, (relatively) wealthy people with white-collar jobs living in rich Western societies--constitute some 5% of the world's wealthiest people. Most human beings living today are not in a position to blow $20 (Indian gross income per capita, per World Bank, 2008: $1040/yr) on a perk, let alone a bribe for some…

You're argument is orthogonal to my point. I'm aware of the wealth differences. I see similar differences quite often in the inner city of Chicago. One overarching trend among the less well off that Guelo demonstrates is a venomance that gets in the way of cooperation and progress. As an example, I have seen young children refuse to be taught by quite capable teachers because the teacher is white and wears jeans that…

My objection isn't to the wealth of the responder. My objection, and I think Guelo's, is that although there may be a market out there for sites that help people with the means throw around $20 bills, it wasn't really the time or the place to bring it up as a response to a site trying to fight genuine corruption, which the US does not suffer from much and which disproportionately affects the very poor.

Also, poverty in America is not, as far as I can tell, much like poverty in the US, although I've not spent any time in the rough parts of Chicago; like most middle-class white people, I spend most of my time on the north side.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#62

Post by detst »

steveklabnik wrote: post #58
detst wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True but that doesn't make this statement from the GP any less ridiculous: "You're effectively asking someone from a lower class to possibly break the law". I know of waiters/waitresses that don't report all of their tips. Do we now say that tipping them is asking them to break the law? Of course not because that's their responsibility, not your's or mine. We're certainly not stopping them.

I think that's kinda silly too, but "getting in trouble with their employer" is 100% legitimate. His overall point still stands.

I mostly disagree there too (at least in the US). Tipping is so ingrained in American culture that I don't think you can put the burden on the tipper to know that doing so can get someone in trouble with their employer.

Just as it's their responsibility to report the income, it's their responsibility to inform the tipper that they cannot accept and, if they want to explain, tell them that it could get them in trouble.

Persistence with that knowledge is unacceptable but that's another matter.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#63

Post by Kilimanjaro »

I'll say it a thousand times, corruption is the cancer of all societies and we really need to find the cure as priority number one. Before going to mars, before sea-steading, before feeding africa.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#64

Post by ajays »

known wrote: post #50

Do not fight corruption in India unless you carry a licensed pistol.

... and the system is setup so that getting a licensed firearm is close to impossible (and you have to pay a lot of bribes to get one).

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#65

Post by ajays »

frisco wrote: post #5
ajays wrote: post #4

This is an interesting idea, but it needs some cachet to catch on. Don't get me wrong: India _needs_ this site, and needs it badly. Corruption and graft have become so bad that everyone from the top-most office down to the lowest level refuses to even lift a finger without getting his palm greased. Things have become so bad that officials are willing to cause a loss of billions of dollars to the taxpayer just to make…

>> Will you help us set up something like [WikiLeaks] in our town? >> There already is a WikiLeaks in your town: WikiLeaks. The corruption exposure business is [global], not regional. It's often forgotten that WikiLeaks isn't specifically aimed at the US, and the vast majority of their leaks until recently were from other parts of the world.

I understand that WikiLeaks is global. I also know that they have exposed leaks from Kenya, India, etc.

But I think there is still room for a local "wikileaks" which is tailored to the local environment in India (which is a big enough country that it would make sense).

Even though India has its version of the FOIA, asking too many questions can get you killed: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/27/india-rti-activi...

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#66

Post by philwelch »

khafra wrote: post #34
thebooktocome wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree with guelo. The services you describe are unadvertised for a reason. You're effectively asking someone from a lower class to possibly break the law (by getting paid under the table, and presumably not reporting the additional income) and possibly get into trouble with their employer because they want your extra money. If that's not a class issue, what is?

Every scenario he described involves people who already make money from tips. If they underreport their tips, that's their own issue. I've read experimental reports from people attempting to bypass social conventions by means of $20 bills, and it only works when the bribee's job and legal status are not on the line. I'm guessing that bypassing social conventions is where most of the outrage comes from. Queueing etiqu…

They're not even bypassing social conventions. If they were, people would refuse to take the tips. The $20 tip itself is a social convention, even though not talking about it is also a social convention.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#68

Post by getonit »

sp332 wrote: post #57
getonit wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would seem to me to be beside the point: Buying favours requires some form of capital, which is more available to some classes than others. If you don't have any, you can't buy favours from any class - your own or otherwise.

Are you saying that having less money than someone else puts you in a lower class in society? Or are you saying that being in a higher class makes money more accessible, somehow?

Yes, both. Feel free to attempt to change my humble opinion :)

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#69

Post by hugh3 »

leelin wrote: post #59
guelo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, instead of it being a site where your wealthy greedy self could gain a meaningless personal advantage over others it is a site that is trying to make the world a better place for everybody. I know it is useless for "everyday folks" from your class, we'll try harder next time.

Wow, I'm sorry you found my comments so offensive and insensitive (and for pseudo-hijacking). I understand this community to enjoy discussing hacks, both computer and non-computer related, and the underground world of tipping is one of the more mysterious and fascinating classes of hacks in my eyes. What I'm requesting actually isn't so different from what the authors of this site ultimately want; more transparency a…

Actually I'm in favour of a free market for kidneys. Some folks have two kidneys and need money. Some folks have no kidneys and plenty of money. We shouldn't forbid them from figuring this one out.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#70

Post by gsk »

seabee wrote: post #55
poet wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can play this game all the way down to the most impoverished society on the planet. A poor Indian could find it reprehensible that a middle class American will throw away a candy bar. A starving African could find it reprehensible that a poor Indian will use comparatively expensive spices in his food. After all, why not eat the most tasteless food possible and then donate the extra money? The point is, unless you…

> The point is, unless you are from the most impoverished society on the planet, you are doing something that someone somewhere could find reprehensible because of social subtext. When you see a liberal with hunched shoulders, it is because this issue is bearing heavily on their mind. /s You're right, of course. Selling all your possessions to donate the proceeds to a poor family only gets you so far, and then only i…

>Selling all your possessions to donate the proceeds to a poor family only gets you so far

Actually, done well, it goes quite far. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11950843

I still agree with your sentiments, of course.

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