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The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

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Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#121

Post by austhrow743 »

joe_the_user wrote: post #56
nyxxie wrote: post #48

I think the author is ascribing too much intent to a simple economy of shame that’s omnipresent in all classes; if people find out you have more than they do, they hate you. The author herself appears to be biased by this. She believes that the “rich elites” have a great burden of responsibility towards the world, which she justifies with shaky zero sum logic that suggests that because they have more, they necessaril…

I went to college in the Bay Area and to a small private college with significant portion of very wealthy. Some in the private college concealed their wealth, some didn't. The thing is, most middle or above folks with an once of sophistication can sense the trust fund kid a mile away - most working class can sense something too, just maybe don't know the middle-class from the trust funders. I'm shocked the author was…

A thing being known secretly and a thing being known openly are two very different scenarios. That they can't completely conceal their wealth and that they know that, is not a reason to believe they're trying to conceal their wealth.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#122

Post by Dylan16807 »

refurb wrote: post #117
Dylan16807 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She believes that the “rich elites” have a great burden of responsibility towards the world, which she justifies with shaky zero sum logic that suggests that because they have more, they necessarily took it from those who have less (her bulky villager metaphor). A single person can only be so productive on a consistent basis. There's a threshold of wealth where you can say that on average 90% of the money is coming…

But taxes in the US are a lot less progressive than they used to be, so they come nowhere near taking care of that burden on their own. This is one of those “facts” that simply isn’t true. US taxes have become more progressive over time. Look at the first chart: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/11/02/the-s...

On the other hand, this chart: https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/taHyLEiwFvxZO4U3BfvmJ...

The top percent or two are sucking up increasingly large amounts of GDP, and they're not paying taxes appropriate for being at that level.

And capital gains taxes push the high end down even more.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#123

Post by Dylan16807 »

nyxxie wrote: post #78
Dylan16807 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can blame the players for not helping other players, and not wanting infrastructure that takes excess resources from the winners to help all players.

> You can blame the players for not helping other players Assume we did, what is the correct amount of help that the successful players should help the unsuccessful ones? Unless it's codified into the game itself (being made to pay more taxes based on wealth for example), it's unfair to expect arbitrary players to pay some undefined price to the satisfaction of another arbitrary set of players.

It definitely should be codified. And anyone with power that isn't strongly advocating for that is acting immorally. The nature of the game is very much not an excuse, it's something to rally against.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#124

Post by glangdale »

The Problem at Yale, based on the length of this essay, seems to be Too Much Speech. This is an extended complaint about annoying people one might have brunched with at a few elite institutions, dressed up as cultural analysis.

I am minded of McAdoo on President Harding: “His speeches left the impression of an army of pompous phrases moving over the landscape in search of an idea; sometimes these meandering words would actually capture a straggling thought and bear it triumphantly as a prisoner in their midst, until it died of servitude and overwork.”

In a shock development, university students dress down, pretend to be poorer than they are, and get into conflicts with administrators over things (often pointless things); clearly something that has Never Ever Happened Before.

There are nuggets of good sense here, but the overall message is a scrambled mess. Apparently what's going wrong in the world can be largely attributed to liberal elites patting themselves on the back while trying to do good, or something. I'm sure this plays well in certain circles.

In a world where we have gazillionaire plutocrats actively working 24/7 to fuck other people over (the Koch brothers and the Sacklers spring to mind) I'm not losing too much sleep over this micro-diagnosis about how some kinda-liberal rich people in a tiny slice of American academia pissed off the author and should be spending their lives differently.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#125

Post by goatinaboat »

gnicholas wrote: post #113
joe_the_user wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to college in the Bay Area and to a small private college with significant portion of very wealthy. Some in the private college concealed their wealth, some didn't. The thing is, most middle or above folks with an once of sophistication can sense the trust fund kid a mile away - most working class can sense something too, just maybe don't know the middle-class from the trust funders. I'm shocked the author was…

> the thing is, most middle or above folks with an once of sophistication can sense the trust fund kid a mile away My experience has been the same as the author's. My college classmates (at Swarthmore) and I were repeatedly surprised when we learned that our friends were trust fund kids. I remember junior year we found out that one kid was super wealthy because he bought a last-minute cross-country plane ticket, firs…

Both of those examples are put-it-on-a-card-and-worry-about-it-later territory for even normal, middle-class people. Super-wealthy is buying a yacht on a whim.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#126

Post by gnicholas »

goatinaboat wrote: post #125
gnicholas wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the thing is, most middle or above folks with an once of sophistication can sense the trust fund kid a mile away My experience has been the same as the author's. My college classmates (at Swarthmore) and I were repeatedly surprised when we learned that our friends were trust fund kids. I remember junior year we found out that one kid was super wealthy because he bought a last-minute cross-country plane ticket, firs…

Both of those examples are put-it-on-a-card-and-worry-about-it-later territory for even normal, middle-class people. Super-wealthy is buying a yacht on a whim.

First class round-trip tickets across the US? Thats a thousand bucks. And $400 for a music player? Those are not normal expenditures for middle-class 20-year-olds (in 2007, before MP3 players were ubiquitous and inexpensive).

Regardless, I’m not saying these are only ever purchased by the ultra-wealthy. I’m saying this was the first sign anyone had that these kids had any money whatsoever. It turned out both have trust funds and are extraordinarily wealthy.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#127

Post by goatinaboat »

gnicholas wrote: post #126
goatinaboat wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of those examples are put-it-on-a-card-and-worry-about-it-later territory for even normal, middle-class people. Super-wealthy is buying a yacht on a whim.

First class round-trip tickets across the US? Thats a thousand bucks. And $400 for a music player? Those are not normal expenditures for middle-class 20-year-olds (in 2007, before MP3 players were ubiquitous and inexpensive). Regardless, I’m not saying these are only ever purchased by the ultra-wealthy. I’m saying this was the first sign anyone had that these kids had any money whatsoever. It turned out both have tru…

That particular example resonated with me. I'm not super-rich, far from it, I certainly wasn't even earning much in that time-frame. And I did a similar thing because it was the last ticket left and I had to get to a funeral. There must have been other clues that lead to the conclusion that they were trust fund kids!

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#128

Post by silvestrov »

TomMckenny wrote: post #120
alexandercrohde wrote: post #61

I find this piece fascinating. To honor it I offer a tl; dr 1. Author recounts experiences of people lying about their class/wealth at Yale, often feigning less wealth. 2. Explains behavior 1 as style, safety, loss-of-perspective, and avoiding social responsibility 3. Retells several incidents where a vocal minority of students at Yale picked and won battles over verbiage (e.g. emails, Calhoun, "Master of college").…

>4. Interprets the battles in 3 as at best insignificant and at worst a distraction from real problems of class disparity in America. Note however that there is nothing in the article describing economic disparity as a problem. There are laments about social position and altering or eliminating traditions but no hint of criticism of economic inequality. So the claims aren't about inequality, they're about the "wrong"…

> they should act rich instead to become more worthy of respect

No, the point is that "if you put on a façade for long enough, you end up forgetting that it is a façade"

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#129

Post by silvestrov »

nyxxie wrote: post #48

I think the author is ascribing too much intent to a simple economy of shame that’s omnipresent in all classes; if people find out you have more than they do, they hate you. The author herself appears to be biased by this. She believes that the “rich elites” have a great burden of responsibility towards the world, which she justifies with shaky zero sum logic that suggests that because they have more, they necessaril…

> a bunch of kids trying to avoid being systematically bullied

The author thinks the Elite Universities are the center of the world and defines what happends everywhere else. They aren't and they don't. There isn't anything anymore which is "the center of everything".

If this was only about rich people at Yale, Harvard, etc, then it would be a storm in a glass of water. It would have no consequence in most universities.

But we see the dysfunction at many universities in the western world. A good explanation would explain why this also happends in many other places.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#130

Post by ikeyany »

goatinaboat wrote: post #127
gnicholas wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First class round-trip tickets across the US? Thats a thousand bucks. And $400 for a music player? Those are not normal expenditures for middle-class 20-year-olds (in 2007, before MP3 players were ubiquitous and inexpensive). Regardless, I’m not saying these are only ever purchased by the ultra-wealthy. I’m saying this was the first sign anyone had that these kids had any money whatsoever. It turned out both have tru…

That particular example resonated with me. I'm not super-rich, far from it, I certainly wasn't even earning much in that time-frame. And I did a similar thing because it was the last ticket left and I had to get to a funeral. There must have been other clues that lead to the conclusion that they were trust fund kids!

The last ticket left was a first class ticket?
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