Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

palladiummag.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 182 posts

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#61

Post by alexandercrohde »

I find this piece fascinating. To honor it I offer a tl; dr

1. Author recounts experiences of people lying about their class/wealth at Yale, often feigning less wealth.

2. Explains behavior 1 as style, safety, loss-of-perspective, and avoiding social responsibility

3. Retells several incidents where a vocal minority of students at Yale picked and won battles over verbiage (e.g. emails, Calhoun, "Master of college").

4. Interprets the battles in 3 as at best insignificant and at worst a distraction from real problems of class disparity in America. Contrasts these protests against Vietnam protests.

5. Proposes "American Elites" have no idea what they stand for anymore, are shirking their responsibility, and have no capability to be self-critical for fear of losing belonging in the in-group.

6. Rejects these Yale social movements: "This ideology is filled with inconsistencies and contradictions, because it is not really about ideological rigor. Among other things, it is an elaborate containment system for the theoretical and practical discontent generated by the failures of the system, an absolution from guilt, and a new form of class signaling."

7. Interprets the "inconsistent" Yale protests as an unproductive way for students to avoid guilt of their privilege and distance themselves from failing "legacy institutions."

8. Holds the Yale administration accountable for siding against a "vacuous" student cause instead of their own faculty. Demands more from "an institution older than the Republic"

9. Asks what it means if "Yale dies" and why this matters. Proposes it speaks to a more universal problem.

[All that said, I recommend reading the whole thing if you can find the time. This distillation has only a fraction of the value of the whole piece. Many tangential points are very interesting.]

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#62

Post by tossAfterUsing »

inflatableDodo wrote: post #17

You should see what happens when these people leave university and continue the charade in a variety of broken down diesels. A lot of the worst behaviour I have ever seen by people in travelling communities has been from the expensively educated children of the exceedingly rich, pretending to be gypsies.

the woke-est girl i ever met was from the ivy league, the daughter of state department parents. she'd been 'traveling' for a year, and just returned to the bay area... to sleep on a filthy couch in the warehouse where i was living with a handful of other folks.

except for the dreadlocks, filth, and b.o., she was as white as the driven snow. she lectured me for 40 minutes. when i told her i was raised by a single mother, went hungry sometimes as a kid, and paid my way through college she helped me understand that i needed "sit down and shut up" to hear other people's oppression

at this time, i don't remember her burner-name. i do remember she was cute, and i had a bit of a crush on her until that day. the experience comes to mind every time somebody asks me "why in god's name?!" would i leave the bay area for texas

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#63

Post by nyxxie »

joe_the_user wrote: post #56
nyxxie wrote: post #48

I think the author is ascribing too much intent to a simple economy of shame that’s omnipresent in all classes; if people find out you have more than they do, they hate you. The author herself appears to be biased by this. She believes that the “rich elites” have a great burden of responsibility towards the world, which she justifies with shaky zero sum logic that suggests that because they have more, they necessaril…

I went to college in the Bay Area and to a small private college with significant portion of very wealthy. Some in the private college concealed their wealth, some didn't. The thing is, most middle or above folks with an once of sophistication can sense the trust fund kid a mile away - most working class can sense something too, just maybe don't know the middle-class from the trust funders. I'm shocked the author was…

> the situation makes your point about "they have to conceal it to be treated as human" ring totally false

They can smell it sure, but their reaction is proportional to some product of distance between their socioeconomic positions and how much shame the other party signals. Pretending to be poor is demonstrating shame of one's higher position. In your case, this seems to have been enough to placate their less privileged peers.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#64

Post by Dylan16807 »

nyxxie wrote: post #59
Dylan16807 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She believes that the “rich elites” have a great burden of responsibility towards the world, which she justifies with shaky zero sum logic that suggests that because they have more, they necessarily took it from those who have less (her bulky villager metaphor). A single person can only be so productive on a consistent basis. There's a threshold of wealth where you can say that on average 90% of the money is coming…

> Labor and trade are not zero sum. The decision of where the generated dollars go is zero sum. Certainly, my point was that possessing a greater share of wealth is not the same as the completely unearned disparity in distribution of common resources in the author's hypothetical scenario. We live in a world of scarcity, so disparity when that scarcity is left up to market forces is to be expected and in fact could ev…

The game isn't half as fair as it should be. I see great problem in that.

Even though some fraction of the disparity is earned, a lot clearly isn't.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#65

Post by Invictus0 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #64
nyxxie wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Labor and trade are not zero sum. The decision of where the generated dollars go is zero sum. Certainly, my point was that possessing a greater share of wealth is not the same as the completely unearned disparity in distribution of common resources in the author's hypothetical scenario. We live in a world of scarcity, so disparity when that scarcity is left up to market forces is to be expected and in fact could ev…

The game isn't half as fair as it should be. I see great problem in that. Even though some fraction of the disparity is earned, a lot clearly isn't.

The game was and has never been fair. The parent is merely arguing that you should blame the game, and not the players.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#66

Post by Dylan16807 »

Invictus0 wrote: post #65
Dylan16807 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The game isn't half as fair as it should be. I see great problem in that. Even though some fraction of the disparity is earned, a lot clearly isn't.

The game was and has never been fair. The parent is merely arguing that you should blame the game, and not the players.

You can blame the players for not helping other players, and not wanting infrastructure that takes excess resources from the winners to help all players.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#67

Post by mieseratte »

NaturalGlass wrote: post #49
Ismair wrote: post #32

Economic inequality is at its highest level since 1928 and is about to increase even more due to automation, this climate of victimization/identity politics is being increasingly forced at a higher level by corporations, a simple way to build goodwill in the public opinion and feel that they are in the right.

This comment kinda baffles me, mostly cause of the implication that "identity politics" progressives don't talk about economic inequality enough. Not sure where exactly that is the case, except maybe in pop feminism that wants more black women of color to be billionaires. But that kind of thinking is widely criticized by the left too.

In my experience they do not take it into consideration at all. I’ve been told far too many times by silver-spoon identity-politic progressives that I don’t get a say because of racial and gender privilege, with no regard for any economic struggle.

You’ll have to forgive me for daring to ask if renaming buildings of alumni who held what are now regressive views is the hill to die on. Of course it’s a black-and-white right or wrong, so if you ask a question you’re just excommunicado.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#68

Post by joe_the_user »

nyxxie wrote: post #63
joe_the_user wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to college in the Bay Area and to a small private college with significant portion of very wealthy. Some in the private college concealed their wealth, some didn't. The thing is, most middle or above folks with an once of sophistication can sense the trust fund kid a mile away - most working class can sense something too, just maybe don't know the middle-class from the trust funders. I'm shocked the author was…

> the situation makes your point about "they have to conceal it to be treated as human" ring totally false They can smell it sure, but their reaction is proportional to some product of distance between their socioeconomic positions and how much shame the other party signals. Pretending to be poor is demonstrating shame of one's higher position. In your case, this seems to have been enough to placate their less privil…

But it really occurs to me, the rich aren't acting poor to fool the poor. The rich don't care about the poor and don't encounter them that much. The rich act "poor" to fool themselves or just flatter themselves, to tell themselves they face challenges or just because their idea of the poor is romantic. Back in college X, lots of folks dressed vaguely dock workers, with lots of plaid and such, but no one trying to actually seem a dock worker. It was just a starting off point for a pose.

No, the rich are ashamed but aren't ashamed to you, they're ashamed to themselves.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#69

Post by finolex1 »

This article strikes me as extraploating a select few experiences to make far reaching conclusions. 99% of the people at yale are not children of billionaires or statesmen. They are children of doctors, lawyers, programmers, etc. who are wealthy but not wealthy enough to live off their inheritance indefinitely. People attend classes, do research, play sports, or put up performances - in short what's been going on for decades at virtually every college. Maybe there's a larger structural inequality problem in society, but it seems far fetched to point to her anecdotal experiences with rich kids as the cause.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#70

Post by at-fates-hands »

jatmataz wrote: post #25
nonce42 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author seems pretty confused about rich kids. Having rich parents doesn't necessarily mean that you have a lot of cash in college. (Sensible parents are going to give their college kids enough money to get by, not enough to go on a spending spree.) Thus, it's totally reasonable that college kids are commonly broke. It's not some role-playing to escape their responsibilities as members of the elite. In other words…

Even if the rich parents aren't injecting a huge cash flow, that student still has the safety net to fall back on.

I came from a rich family. My parents let me flounder on my own in college. Never gave me a dime and I had earn everything I ever had. When I was 25 and my GF got pregnant, my parents said, “Well, you’re a responsible adult, you’ll figure it out.”

For me? There was no safety net. A year on food stamps, paying child support, working three jobs and being clinically depressed was me “figuring it out.”

At no time did they ever step in to help me financially. When I moved out for my freshman year was their idea of kicking me out of the nest.

Post reply on HN