Who Owns Huawei? • Hacker News Board

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#311

Post by brainpool » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 8:48 PM UTC

alistproducer2 wrote: post #281

brainpool wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Simply no. There is no anti-China agenda. There is however an anti-medieval agenda, it has less to do with China as such and more to do with the mindset of the society and the ruling of the state. Most other societies have been through this already. China will also eventually.

May I ask, how much time have you spent I'm China?

I have had the opportunity to visit China multiple times during the last few years. Have met many wonderful people there. However, what makes me uncomfortable is the society. I have been in many countries where you get scorned as a foreigner. China is the only place where I have encountered that people treat you as you do not exist. Obviously, this is not something that only applies to foreigners; it’s a view of humanity that is very far removed from the rest of the world. I find it chilling to be honest.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#312

Post by gridlockd » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 10:13 PM UTC

ivanhoe wrote: post #302

gridlockd wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a meme that has been adopted by leftists wholesale. The basic premise is that since any innovation can be somehow tracked backed to government investment, the government is somehow responsible for most innovation. It disregards the whole process that is required to take insights from research into a real product. Yes, the internet was developed by the military. Only when private enterprise took over did it be…

One could also argue the opposite, that commercializing an invention is much more obvious, faster and WAY CHEAPER step than inventing the tech need for it? And I agree with you that Government is a terrible entrepreneur, but that's actually a good thing, because its huge budgets and the lack of interest in making money out of it, is exactly what keeps pure science per science's sake projects alive. Lots of R&D that g…

> One could also argue the opposite, that commercializing an invention is much more obvious, faster and WAY CHEAPER step than inventing the tech need for it?

Not necessarily, or at least it doesn't readily compare. Sure, if I first have to develop all the physics dating back to Newton on my own, building a piece of electronics would be very expensive.

But let's say some researcher at a university discovers the field effect that could be useful for semiconductors. That researcher's lifetime salary will likely be far smaller than the cost required to actually bring their findings into the actual microprocessors.

> So we need both steps for progress, both the government trowing tax payers money on seemingly silly R&D, and entrepreneurs looking for new ways to monetize it later.

If we're talking about massive infrastructure projects, I agree that there's no one else but the government to do it. Whether those projects are warranted is a different matter.

However, if we're just talking about university R&D, it's not clear to me that if it wasn't for the government that it couldn't be financed. A university attracts students (and thus financing) in large parts because of its research.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#313

Post by TheKarateKid » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 3:22 AM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #310

TheKarateKid wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you fully read the OP's comment? We're not talking software here -- we're talking hardware, engineering, and many other things that you don't just get a copy of the how-to's from open source projects.

The claim is that the Chinese are copying stuff via industrial espionage. I get that. But Apple also sued Samsung for using rounded corners on a phone. So there's a lot of gray area in IP enforcement. A similar non-chinese example is the AV1 codec from Google or the Android compatibility with Java. Both are claimed to be IP theft by other western parties. I don't think either of those claims hold up, and I have no re…

Apple, Samsung, Google, etc. may all have infringed at times, but their entire product and companies are not based off of infringement. Even in the products they infringe, the majority of it is their own.

These Chinese companies literally clone the entire product. Entire businesses are based off theft.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#314

Post by arcturus17 » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 4:29 AM UTC

varjag wrote: post #240

akvadrako wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hasn't been shown to work that well yet. Most quality innovation and research still happens in free-er countries.

Communist innovation ends when you run out of other people's intellectual property.

I laughed, but this is not true. The Soviets had brilliant scientists but were mostly disastrous at engineering and manufacturing. The Chinese on the other hand... Remember, they're not really Communists - Marx would be turning in his grave.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#315

Post by prawn » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 9:06 AM UTC

brainpool wrote: post #311

alistproducer2 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask, how much time have you spent I'm China?

I have had the opportunity to visit China multiple times during the last few years. Have met many wonderful people there. However, what makes me uncomfortable is the society. I have been in many countries where you get scorned as a foreigner. China is the only place where I have encountered that people treat you as you do not exist. Obviously, this is not something that only applies to foreigners; it’s a view of huma…

In what context were you scorned? I've been to China a number of times (though not in the last five years) and found locals curious and very friendly. This was not, however, in a business context - purely as a traveller who knew a bit of Mandarin.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#316

Post by throw0101a » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 12:03 PM UTC

tthhuyid wrote: post #125

throw0101a wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... overestimating the authoritarian. Sure: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps

For perspective, there are 2.3 million African Americans in prison.

For perspective, you can critique the US government(s) (state/federal) and say that this is a bad thing, and you won't disappear. I doubt you can critique the Chinese government about the re-education camps.

Here's a major presidential candidate on the topic:

* https://berniesanders.com/issues/criminal-justice-reform/

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#317

Post by JetSpiegel » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 12:48 PM UTC

dirtyid wrote: post #279

xxxpupugo wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> large Asian companies is that there is much less in-fighting between parts of the organization Not true. My observations are opposite, however, I am not disapproving what you said, but I don't think there is a conclusion to make. However, if you prove yourself as a capable strongman that doesn't take objections, then in Asian companies, under the certain circumstances/directives, I believe you can have much more di…

Video game crunch in western companies sounds comparably bad TBH. Search for all the drama around unending crunch hell of Fortnight development. If anything 997 seems to formalize and provide and at least provides upper limit on exploitation.

Should this be "996", or is this a new thing where there's not even one day off?

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#318

Post by JetSpiegel » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 12:53 PM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #241

bayesian_horse wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on whether or not there is something to copy...

Perfect example: Aircraft carrier operations. The US has painfully acquired the expertise and skills over half century. Thousands of aviators and sailors have died over decades until the current level of expertise has been reached. Chinese have studied and copied everything. They translated USN carrier vessel flight deck manuals into Chinese and adopted it almost verbatim. Even the colors are the same. That's really…

Isn't the US Navy colliding with container ships because their pilots are sleeping at the wheel? Use it or lose it.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#319

Post by sprafa » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

TheKarateKid wrote: post #307

yourbandsucks wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cultural schmultural. They're in a place where it makes sense to do it, they're pragmatic, they do it. The US industrial revolution was kick-started by IP theft as well: https://www.history.com/news/industrial-revolution-spies-eur... Would you do any different if you were in charge of a country and your people need to eat? "Sorry starving peasants, we must respect international IP law"?

> Would you do any different if you were in charge of a country and your people need to eat? They do it, and most of their people still can't afford to eat.

Most of the Chinese can’t afford to eat?? That’s a pretty bold claim. Evidence?

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#320

Post by stevenhuang » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 11:12 PM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #199

stevenhuang wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've accepted they've copied Cisco's manuals for one of their products yet question if they've copied Cisco's hardware... ? Huawei's infamous approach to "acquiring technology" is undisputed. Literally ask anyone in the industry. Look at how they've ruined Nortel. See their behaviour at trade shows, taking apart competitors equipment to take pictures of their schematics. The evidence is out there, why don't you sif…

In the same way that I accept Google copied Oracle's max function. If that's the worst that anyone can pin on a multi-billion-dollar-revenue company, it's pretty squeaky clean. The Nortel accusations are completely evidence-free. Nortel collapsed because of the bursting of the tech bubble, mixed in with a fair dose of "creative accounting." > I'm curious to know why this is all so hard for you to believe. Because the…

I've read your other responses and while the points you make are reasonable, it's "obvious" to many that a certain threshold of belief has been crossed, most notably by industry insiders. There are far too many accounts of Huawei's behaviour that leads one to suspicion. You don't need mass media for this. Read the countless first hand experiences here and elsewhere. Unless of course you believe they're astroturfing.