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What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

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Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#261

Post by shkkmo »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #253
mwiethoff wrote: post #115

I developed an RSI a few years ago, and I had to leave my job. It was devastating to lose both my career and my passion to an injury. Since then, I've been working with a friend on a new voice coding app called Serenade [1] that aims to enable anyone to program by voice. With Serenade, you can speak natural English voice commands like "delete second function" and "add class person". Not only can this be faster than t…

What's the licensing for this? I feel very strongly that accessibility technologies must be free/open source software, so that the already disadvantaged community which relies on them can work together on improving them to give each other a leg up, or to adapt it to their specific circumstances.

There is no license listed in the github repos for the VSCode and Atom plugins[0]. As such they are not currently open source.

Open source seems like a major advantage with assistive technologies and something that the community should insist on in the products it uses.

However, insisting that only free (as in beer) software is acceptable seems to unnecessarily restrict the potential new software that is needed.

[0] https://github.com/serenadeai

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#262

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

shkkmo wrote: post #261
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the licensing for this? I feel very strongly that accessibility technologies must be free/open source software, so that the already disadvantaged community which relies on them can work together on improving them to give each other a leg up, or to adapt it to their specific circumstances.

There is no license listed in the github repos for the VSCode and Atom plugins[0]. As such they are not currently open source. Open source seems like a major advantage with assistive technologies and something that the community should insist on in the products it uses. However, insisting that only free (as in beer) software is acceptable seems to unnecessarily restrict the potential new software that is needed. [0]…

I meant free as in freedom in this case, sorry for the confusion.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#263

Post by anotherevan »

groundlogic wrote: post #61

I got RSI like 15 years ago. The only thing that's worked for me long term when I'm actually doing coding all day long, is a combination of: a) a keyboard holder below the desk - something similar to https://kw.pricenacdn.com/files/images/products/original/14/... - I got mine from IKEA a long time ago - unfortunately they discontinued that product - the key thing here is the get the keyboard as close to your legs as…

I love the MS Natural Keyboards and agree about the durability. I had one of them so long the little nubs on the J and F keys actually wore away and I couldn't place my hands by touch any more. (I scored the two keys with an old soldering iron.)

I've tried the Sculpt keyboard, and just not as good for me. I do use the silver media and other keys along the top quite extensively, plus being a Vim user, the escape key seems to be a bit too dodgy.

As they've been harder to buy, when my last one finally died (which is when I found I don't like the Sculpt that much) I ended up trading fixing someone's printer configuration for their barely used Natural keyboard that had been sitting in a corner for ages as they didn't like it. Going to be very sad when I can't find one any more.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#264

Post by noahprince8 »

bspammer wrote: post #206
hilyen wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely interested. I’ll check it out. Same boat, software engineer, my index and middle finger main knuckles on both hands inflame from the slightest use even after years of therapy, doctors visits, etc. Also tendinitis in both elbows/arms. Note to those who are pushing off fixing your ergonomics, don’t. If you feel pain, numbing, tingling; do not ignore it. Listen to your body, don’t be like me.

I'm 23 and have been using computers very heavily for the last 10 or so years - probably an average of 6 hours a day. During a particularly intensive day of typing last week I started getting pain in my right hand. I had to resort to hunt-and-peck index finger typing to get the feature I was working on finished. I'm horrified, it feels like I'm way too early in my career for something like this to happen, but I guess…

Ergonomic keyboard and mouse.

A split keyboard is a huge win. When you sit with your hands in front of you, they don't naturally want to go in towards the center. They want to be offset a bit.

Below the desk keyboard tray -- Look up an ergonomics diagram. You aren't supposed to have your hands going up to get to your desk. It's supposed to be a 90 degree angle.

Going mechanical. I run Kailh Silvers, which are incredibly light and have a 1.1 mm travel distance before the key registers. It's like typing on air. I barely have to move my fingers. This, of course, takes some getting used to.

Going ortholinear. Staggered keys are just a remnant of old typewriters. Your fingers were built to go straight back and forth. Making them go sideways forces _a lot_ of extra wrist movement. Again, this takes some time to learn.

Curved keyboard well. Your fingers aren't all the same length. Couldn't we make something that puts all of the fingers closer to their keys in the resting position? Yes. See below.

After a little time with mechanical keyboards, I ended up just going all out and building myself a Dactyl. That's a split ortholinear keyboard with a curved keywell, and is basically as ergonomic as it gets. If you want advise on how to build one, I can help point you in the right direction. It took probably 10 hours. Otherwise the closest thing is an Ergodox or Kinesis Advantage. It only took a Sunday to get mostly used to it, and my typing speed has actually gotten way faster. I detailed the learning curve here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/azkkpz...

The only disadvantage is that if you bring one of these into work, get ready to catch some flack :D

At this point I've got my own chair, standing desk converter, mouse and keyboard. I plan on coding for a long time, not just for the money but because I love it. So I look like a bit of a dumbass, but in 20 years I'll still be coding.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#265

Post by hanoz »

Engineering-MD wrote: post #248
hogFeast wrote: post #240

The stuff about doctors in the UK is quite amusing. I actually look after a relative who has similar but not identical issue. Like OP, the diagnosis is madness and advice to see a clinical psychologist (ironically, this person was a psychologist themselves). Like OP, the doctor is actually actively intervening to prevent a second opinion from a neurologist (which is slightly redundant as the conclusion will most like…

It looks like you’ve had some bad experiences with doctors. I myself am a doctor in the UK, and my experience differs from yours. I would say like all humans, some of my colleagues are arrogant, and some are not. I would agree we tend to mention it early in conversation, but more because for many their whole life revolves around it (it makes discussing your life difficult if you ignore it!). The term used commonly is…

> I would agree we tend to mention it early in conversation

Username checks out.

Contrary to the above I've always found UK doctors perfectly reasonable to deal with, but we're definitely having some big problems in this country arising from them being absurdly overpaid. Some AI competition can't come soon enough.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#266

Post by z0r »

stevekemp wrote: post #41
tcoff91 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try doing some rock climbing either outdoors or at the rock gym. Fixed my hand pain real quick.

In my case too much bouldering caused forearm pain that lasted for two years. Didn't stop me from typing, but it did have a significant impact on my daily life :/

"Make or Break" by David MacLeod has helped me fix a handful of climbing related strains - https://www.davemacleod.com/shop/makeorbreak - might not be relevant for you anymore, but I would recommend it for anybody who climbs

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#267

Post by demilicious »

AJ007 wrote: post #229
pknopf wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have carpal tunnel, lifting weights can make things worse. It puts more stress in the narrow canal that your tendons go through, which cause the pain.

At the worst, I had continuous wrist pain and woke up in the morning unable to feel my arms. I couldn’t physically hold a mouse for more than about 15 minutes. When this happened I was also lifting weights. I spent thousands of dollars on ergonomic chairs, keyboards, mice. It helped but didn’t solve the symptoms completely. I was unable to do things like use a laptop without pain. Several years later I started doing…

Can you describe what body weight exercises you found helpful? Why do you think those were different than what you were accomplishing with traditional gym weightlifting?

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#268

Post by noahprince8 »

noahprince8 wrote: post #264
bspammer wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 23 and have been using computers very heavily for the last 10 or so years - probably an average of 6 hours a day. During a particularly intensive day of typing last week I started getting pain in my right hand. I had to resort to hunt-and-peck index finger typing to get the feature I was working on finished. I'm horrified, it feels like I'm way too early in my career for something like this to happen, but I guess…

Ergonomic keyboard and mouse. A split keyboard is a huge win. When you sit with your hands in front of you, they don't naturally want to go in towards the center. They want to be offset a bit. Below the desk keyboard tray -- Look up an ergonomics diagram. You aren't supposed to have your hands going up to get to your desk. It's supposed to be a 90 degree angle. Going mechanical. I run Kailh Silvers, which are incredi…

I should mention my issues have mainly been with wrist and neck pain.

This has completely gotten rid of the wrist pain. The split keyboard opened up my posture and helped a bit with the neck pain.

Since I got a new job that didn't have standing desks, the neck pain has started to come back a little bit. It's mostly because your neck gets weak when you sit for so many hours a day. Getting a standing desk converter can help keep your muscles from atrophying. It's also not great to stand all day. You want to alternate.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#269

Post by hogFeast »

hanoz wrote: post #265
Engineering-MD wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like you’ve had some bad experiences with doctors. I myself am a doctor in the UK, and my experience differs from yours. I would say like all humans, some of my colleagues are arrogant, and some are not. I would agree we tend to mention it early in conversation, but more because for many their whole life revolves around it (it makes discussing your life difficult if you ignore it!). The term used commonly is…

> I would agree we tend to mention it early in conversation Username checks out. Contrary to the above I've always found UK doctors perfectly reasonable to deal with, but we're definitely having some big problems in this country arising from them being absurdly overpaid. Some AI competition can't come soon enough.

The degree of reasonableness heavily depends on context.

In my personal experience as a patient, I have found doctors to be largely reasonable too. I am a young male, I am in good health...what could possibly be the issue? I wouldn't report total satisfaction but within the bounds of reasonableness...and why would I even care? If someone is rude to me on the bus, I think "wow, that person is hurting"...and move on with my life.

When you are an elderly, vulnerable woman suffering from chronic pain, and your lifespan is affected by these decisions...the situation takes on significance.

It is the kind of casually ignorant view of other people's lives that Brits seem to specialise in. Oh, you are poor? Well, my dad once forgot to transfer money into my bank account for a few days when I was at uni...it can't be that bad. Oh, you are black? Well, I haven't experienced any racism...it can't be that bad.

Skin in the game. If you want to find out about something, you don't learn from the sidelines.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#270

Post by neurostimulant »

fabioz wrote: post #244
throwaway3714 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those in this thread, try mechanical keyboards without much actuation force, like Cherry MX clear. Also try programmable keyboards or custom keymap layouts, which will allow you to map Return to the caps lock key to balance RSI a bit. I have issues with my right index which I almost completely blame on Diablo 1/2, swapping left + right click helps a lot. I’ve also tried and wouldn’t recommend: Dvorak (no noticeab…

My experience is different here... changing to Dvorak + changing mouse to a trackball in the left hand (along with a MS ergonomic keyboard) made a world of difference for me. I can currently code a whole day without feeling anything... coming from not having enough strenght to hold a glass sometimes due to RSI -- 10 years since I did the switch already... having to type much slower when doing the switch to Dvorak als…

I have the same experience with Dvorak. Haven't got any pain issue anymore since i switched from qwerty to dvorak. My typing speed really suffer for the first week though. Also, now i can't type on qwerty anymore except on a phone on-screen keyboard.
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