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What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

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Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#241

Post by rkagerer »

Developed RSI 15 years ago, tried all kinds of contraptions. Here's what helped me:

- Kinesis Advantage keyboard w/ footswitch https://kinesis-ergo.com/products/#keyboards

- Ambidextrous mousing (one on each side, to split the load). Favor your PageUp / PageDown buttons over the evil mousewheel.

- Lifestyle changes (biggest bang for the buck). Try to get at least 20 minutes of aerobic exercise in each day, e.g. running.

- Proper ergonomic positioning

This video from the article is a phenomenal demonstration of dictation coding: https://youtu.be/Mz3JeYfBTcY

Fun fact (or myth?): Your tongue is one of the few muscles in the body that can't get RSI. I played around prototyping a tongue-switch a while back using a flex sensor.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#242

Post by hogFeast »

m12k wrote: post #10

That story of how the doctors just dismissed her pain as delusion is terrifying. Doctors are supposed to be people of science, but one of the very fundamentals of science is to acknowledge that you don't know everything, that your current knowledge is just a theory that can be improved upon. I find there's a tendency among doctors to think they know every possible disease, and if someone comes along with one that doe…

I think this is something that happens more in the UK.

The NHS has a "policy" on these issues. If you have anything that is falls into the category of "poorly understood neuro", you are mad...according to NHS policy. What is even more disturbing though is that the research is fairly clear that these problems aren't psychological...but doctors within the NHS, usually non-researchers, are utterly convinced that it is which has massively hindered the amount of research on this within the UK.

And the massive irony of this is that most doctors in the UK, usually not in primary care, will happily accuse patients of being mad...but there is almost no investment in psychological services in the UK. The doctors are seeing an epidemic of mad people...but don't think they need treating...logical.

Btw, I look after a relative who has something like this and it is fucking terrifying (and upsetting watching someone get sicker every day with no professional help or even interest in help). These problems are usually genetic, if I get sick then I have no-one to look after me, and I know if I get sick there will be no professional help. Let's hope I am lucky.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#243

Post by bootlooped »

throwaway3714 wrote: post #230
hilyen wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely interested. I’ll check it out. Same boat, software engineer, my index and middle finger main knuckles on both hands inflame from the slightest use even after years of therapy, doctors visits, etc. Also tendinitis in both elbows/arms. Note to those who are pushing off fixing your ergonomics, don’t. If you feel pain, numbing, tingling; do not ignore it. Listen to your body, don’t be like me.

For those in this thread, try mechanical keyboards without much actuation force, like Cherry MX clear. Also try programmable keyboards or custom keymap layouts, which will allow you to map Return to the caps lock key to balance RSI a bit. I have issues with my right index which I almost completely blame on Diablo 1/2, swapping left + right click helps a lot. I’ve also tried and wouldn’t recommend: Dvorak (no noticeab…

I really like my ergodox. I can't go back to a normal keyboard. The only upgrade I can think of is going to a kinesis advantage or dactyl. It took about a week to get comfortable with mine, longer until I was better with it than a normal keyboard.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#244

Post by fabioz »

throwaway3714 wrote: post #230
hilyen wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely interested. I’ll check it out. Same boat, software engineer, my index and middle finger main knuckles on both hands inflame from the slightest use even after years of therapy, doctors visits, etc. Also tendinitis in both elbows/arms. Note to those who are pushing off fixing your ergonomics, don’t. If you feel pain, numbing, tingling; do not ignore it. Listen to your body, don’t be like me.

For those in this thread, try mechanical keyboards without much actuation force, like Cherry MX clear. Also try programmable keyboards or custom keymap layouts, which will allow you to map Return to the caps lock key to balance RSI a bit. I have issues with my right index which I almost completely blame on Diablo 1/2, swapping left + right click helps a lot. I’ve also tried and wouldn’t recommend: Dvorak (no noticeab…

My experience is different here... changing to Dvorak + changing mouse to a trackball in the left hand (along with a MS ergonomic keyboard) made a world of difference for me.

I can currently code a whole day without feeling anything... coming from not having enough strenght to hold a glass sometimes due to RSI -- 10 years since I did the switch already... having to type much slower when doing the switch to Dvorak also forces you to be slower and helps in the initial recovery.

As a note for people with issues, don't go to pain killers when you're still typing, you'll only make the problem worse... if you go to pain killers make sure you also stop typing/injuring yourself.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#245

Post by licebmi__at__ »

armada651 wrote: post #107
Igelau wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GP didn't give 'advice' so much as they said "your medical records? ha, right... you're crazy." And then proceeded to shut down all avenues to further care and pain management. Honestly it sounds like the GP is so cynical about the hot garbage they perceive UK healthcare to be that they basically said "please go away so that our utter inability to help you doesn't weigh on my conscience any further... oh thank go…

> The GP didn't give 'advice' so much as they said "your medical records? ha, right... you're crazy." And then proceeded to shut down all avenues to further care and pain management. That's a patient's perspective, but how about a doctor's perspective? You've got a patient refusing treatment for what could very well be a psychosomatic condition and instead demanding opiods that are very likely to result in addiction.…

I support your point, but there's also one more thing to consider. Some MDs share the social stigma around mental health, and won't waste the opportunity to make the patient feel like it's their fault because they don't want to get better, and that they should make space for patients who have real conditions.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#246

Post by mattigames »

mwiethoff wrote: post #115

I developed an RSI a few years ago, and I had to leave my job. It was devastating to lose both my career and my passion to an injury. Since then, I've been working with a friend on a new voice coding app called Serenade [1] that aims to enable anyone to program by voice. With Serenade, you can speak natural English voice commands like "delete second function" and "add class person". Not only can this be faster than t…

Just today I heard about this guy with motor issues who can play competitive fighting games using only his tongue (not directly, using it to push his cheeks/skin) I would imagine combining something like that with voice recognition would be the best approach, something like press X before saying (on your mic) a variable name, or press Y before saying a control structure, such approach would remove a lot of ambiguity because the number of possible interpretations by the speech recognition software would be greatly reduced.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#247

Post by ndjskska »

bspammer wrote: post #206
hilyen wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely interested. I’ll check it out. Same boat, software engineer, my index and middle finger main knuckles on both hands inflame from the slightest use even after years of therapy, doctors visits, etc. Also tendinitis in both elbows/arms. Note to those who are pushing off fixing your ergonomics, don’t. If you feel pain, numbing, tingling; do not ignore it. Listen to your body, don’t be like me.

I'm 23 and have been using computers very heavily for the last 10 or so years - probably an average of 6 hours a day. During a particularly intensive day of typing last week I started getting pain in my right hand. I had to resort to hunt-and-peck index finger typing to get the feature I was working on finished. I'm horrified, it feels like I'm way too early in my career for something like this to happen, but I guess…

Use computers less.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#248

Post by Engineering-MD »

hogFeast wrote: post #240

The stuff about doctors in the UK is quite amusing. I actually look after a relative who has similar but not identical issue. Like OP, the diagnosis is madness and advice to see a clinical psychologist (ironically, this person was a psychologist themselves). Like OP, the doctor is actually actively intervening to prevent a second opinion from a neurologist (which is slightly redundant as the conclusion will most like…

It looks like you’ve had some bad experiences with doctors. I myself am a doctor in the UK, and my experience differs from yours. I would say like all humans, some of my colleagues are arrogant, and some are not. I would agree we tend to mention it early in conversation, but more because for many their whole life revolves around it (it makes discussing your life difficult if you ignore it!). The term used commonly is functional. Some people (like yourself and the article author, as well as some doctors) take this to mean they are ‘mad’. This is not the meaning of functional. It implies a lack of recognised organic pathology, with a likely cause within the brain. This is a very heterogenous category due to the lack of known biological pathology, and includes those with rare and undiscovered diseases, those with true psycho local issues causing somatisation , and those simply lying. Due to the difficulty in treating these diseases, often people attempt one of the treatments that can work for some of these people (somatisation): psychotherapy. Of course this doesn’t work for everyone, but given the low risk it poses it is worth trying.

As for American healthcare, there is an incentive to overinvestigate and overdiagnose. Not all pathologies found are relevant or explain the clinical findings.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#249

Post by LukeShu »

throwaway61292 wrote: post #197
hilyen wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely interested. I’ll check it out. Same boat, software engineer, my index and middle finger main knuckles on both hands inflame from the slightest use even after years of therapy, doctors visits, etc. Also tendinitis in both elbows/arms. Note to those who are pushing off fixing your ergonomics, don’t. If you feel pain, numbing, tingling; do not ignore it. Listen to your body, don’t be like me.

Can you elaborate on somethings you wish you had done. I get a bit of pain after half a day of coding, mostly my right pinky after hitting enter multiple times. Also get pain after certain activities like rolling food into a ball for my toddlers. I’ve joint pains here and there and the doctors have not yet found the cause and think it’s early onset of arthritis and have been told to take pain killers. I’m 39 by the w…

I (25yo), also had pain in my right pinky and wrist, starting about 2 years ago.

I spoke with a friend who had surgery for Carpel Tunnel Syndrome, and knew a lot more about this than me. What he told me:

* Carpel Tunnel Syndrome affects the thumb/index-finger; pain in the pinky side of your hand could be caused by uthe ulnar tunnel or the cubital tunnel.

* He does sets of 10 of these stretches every hour http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cl-rpkmgPqI/UeUWdH4oMUI/AAAAAAAAAJ... https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/8a/a4/2c/8aa4...

* "One of the biggest things you can do is splint your wrist at night. This is one of the best wrist braces I've found: https://www.amazon.com/Mueller-Fitted-Wrist-Brace-Number/dp/... "

My experience:

- I got a foot pedal, and put Alt, Ctrl, Shift, and Enter on it (and for a while pulled those keycaps off the right side of my keyboard, to force myself to learn to use the foot pedal). This allowed me to keep using a computer while I recovered, and allowed me to avoid stressing my pinky after I recovered. I wrote a bit about that on Reddit https://old.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/7remed/has_anybody_u... .

- The tendon gliding exercises were very helpful. The other stretches didn't seem to make much difference. While I was recovering, I tried to do them hourly. I now only do them if it's acting up.

- I second his endorsement of those wrist braces. When using them, I wear them at night, and when typing if I can (I can use a desk keyboard with them, but can't use my laptop with them). While I was recovering, I used them all the time, now I only use them if it's acting up.

- More recently, I got a Keyboardio Model 01, which puts the modifiers on the thumbs, not the pinkies. The foot pedal is entirely unnecessary with it; it puts much less strain on my hands. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cl-rpkmgPqI/UeUWdH4oMUI/AAAAAAAAAJ...

Nowadays, my wrist acts up maybe once a month or two.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#250

Post by SuperPaintMan »

inawarminister wrote: post #233
Stratoscope wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a really interesting keyboard! I think I've seen one or two like it at the office - I will have to take a closer look. It wouldn't work for me, because as I mentioned in another comment I am a TrackPoint fanatic. I've used ThinkPads for 20 years and even have a USB ThinkPad keyboard on my desktop at work. But thank you for mentioning this option - everyone has different needs and I'm sure this will be very hel…

I've never tried it, but I've heard that "Ultimate Hacking Keyboard" has a TrackPoint add-on module [0] http://xahlee.info/kbd/ultimate_hacking_keyboard.html

It does, but it's also not very programmable or backed by a open source firmware. Give JWZs review on it a read :)
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