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What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

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Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#201

Post by casion »

GordonS wrote: post #92
rntz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Notably, a positive punch biopsy for small fiber neuropathy IS diagnosis with treatment that works fairly well. Ideopathic simply means that the base cause is unknown. What is the treatment you claim? Wikipedia claims that "Treatment [for small fiber neuropathy] is based on the underlying cause, if any." Given that idiopathic means having an unknown cause, that seems to contradict your statement.

SFN sufferer here, can confirm that there is no treatment. There are some promising research chemicals, but we are a long, long way from seeing anything available.

There must be some miscommunication here. Gabapentin and Pregabalin are both used successfully for SFN and are first line treatment options.

For severe cases, things like mexiletine can be used if you're willing to tolerate the side effects. Sodium-channel blockers like lidocaine + epinephrine can be used for localized treatment during sever pain.

It's a fuzzy distinction because SFN is almost always a sign of an underlying cause (even if unknown), and symptomatic treatment IS medical treatment.

(fwiw: I have SFN as well, not that it matters)

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#202

Post by casion »

GordonS wrote: post #91
casion wrote: post #46

Fibromyalgia And idiopathic disease are not terms for "go away". They mean "I've tried what I can think of and theres no further testing we can recommend" Notably, a positive punch biopsy for small fiber neuropathy IS diagnosis with treatment that works fairly well. Ideopathic simply means that the base cause is unknown. The author need to educate themselves further about what doctors can do and what words mean. He h…

I'm sorry, but at least in the UK and on the NHS, fibromyalgia is very much a diagnosis of "go away". I had to battle with my neurologist to get a skin biopsy, despite very clear symptoms of neuropathy, and a very clear trigger. He eventually ordered it, very reluctantly. It came back normal, which for him for conclusive proof that I had fibromyalgia. When I asked him about fibromyalgia, it was immediately clear that…

I had an identical experience to you, however Fibro is diagnosis of exclusion. When the doctor doesn't know what else to do, and you match the symptoms... Boom, Fibro.

I think that hanlon's razor applies: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

In my case, after seeing dozens of specialists, the doctors simply had no clue what to do. Thus what was left was fibro (which few understand) or psychosomatic causes.

I much rather frame a response of "I don't know" as just that, they don't know. It allows me to proceed further with a more knowledgable source.

Early in my experience I took it as "Go Away" or "You're faking", which made me combative. Combative against a source that lacked the knowledge to help me further. It was a COMPLETE waste of time.

If I took "We don't know" as just that, I would have much more quickly moved towards finding a proper specialist with the knowledge to do proper testing and followup care.

It's really easy to think that Doctors are being malicious because, hey! They're doctors, they're not dumb, right? Except they are. Even the most educated of generalists lacks significantly more medical knowledge than they possess. Doctors know a lot less than they know, and almost always best to recognize those limitations in an individual as soon as possible so you can find the right person for your care.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#203

Post by indecisive_user »

einpoklum wrote: post #146
csallen wrote: post #25

This story resonates. A few years back I was dealing with mild pain while coding. I stupidly ignored it for months as it got significantly worse, to the point where it became impossible to type for extended periods. I tried lots of things. My doctor did a nerve conduction study, which apparently ruled out carpal tunnel syndrome, but he wasn't much help beyond that. He gave me some straps that I slept in and wore arou…

To other readers: Be very careful about weight lifting. It has a lot of risks, both of immediate trauma and longer-term excessive strain. So seek the guidance of relevant professionals, including a physical therapist and/or an orthopedics specialist physician, either before or during weight lift training. This is doubly true if you have been in serious pain. I'm not suggesting that you _not_ lift weights - just take…

All exercise has risks. Walking has risks. The question is not what the risks are, but do the benefits of the exercise outweigh potential risks?

For lifting weights, the answer is absolutely yes. Strengthening bones, improving mental health, better sleep, lower blood pressure, less injury prone as you get older, etc. etc. These are the benefits of regular strength training.

For otherwise healthy people, you do not have to consult a professional before starting a weight lifting routine.

I'm sure that your caution is well meaning, and people should definitely ease into a new exercise routine slowly, but recommending that people talk to a doctor or PT before they go to the gym is an overabundance of caution that will lead people to skip out on it altogether out of a misplaced fear of injury.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#204

Post by Stratoscope »

germ wrote: post #191
Stratoscope wrote: post #105

This won't help anyone who has lost the use of their hands, but I have some advice for touch typists who use a standard keyboard like a laptop or typical desktop keyboard: don't bend your wrists. Of course most people know about the ergonomic advice to have your keyboard at the right height so your wrists don't have to bend up or down. But I often see people typing with a horizontal bend in their wrists so that their…

Better solution is to ditch the single-block-style keyboard and get a proper ergonomic one that's split into two parts. That allows you to keep your wrists at a natural angle but you also need to change the layout to use columnar staggering so the fingers are only moving vertically. There's many things wrong with traditional keyboards and many solutions that I could write for years about. This one's mine and is focus…

That's a really interesting keyboard! I think I've seen one or two like it at the office - I will have to take a closer look.

It wouldn't work for me, because as I mentioned in another comment I am a TrackPoint fanatic. I've used ThinkPads for 20 years and even have a USB ThinkPad keyboard on my desktop at work.

But thank you for mentioning this option - everyone has different needs and I'm sure this will be very helpful for someone.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#205

Post by GordonS »

casion wrote: post #201
GordonS wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SFN sufferer here, can confirm that there is no treatment. There are some promising research chemicals, but we are a long, long way from seeing anything available.

There must be some miscommunication here. Gabapentin and Pregabalin are both used successfully for SFN and are first line treatment options. For severe cases, things like mexiletine can be used if you're willing to tolerate the side effects. Sodium-channel blockers like lidocaine + epinephrine can be used for localized treatment during sever pain. It's a fuzzy distinction because SFN is almost always a sign of an und…

Apologies, I meant "treatment" to mean "treat the condition", as in "make it better".

Gabapentin, Pregabalin etc can help with the pain, but not the underlying cause.

I haven't come across mexiletine before, but after a quick glance if looks like it's unlikely to be prescribed in the UK (I'm in the UK :).

I must have tried dozens of medications over the past 4 years or so, but it seems I have some dodgy genetics, as I can't tolerate most, or I have an atypical response (gabapentoids make me feel drunk, SNRIs nauseous, and tricyclics do absolutely nothing). I also tried topical gabapentin and capsaicin, but neither did anything.

> It's a fuzzy distinction because SFN is almost always a sign of an underlying cause (even if unknown)

For me it started when taking immunosuppressants for another condition - within a couple of weeks, the pain started and has been there every minute of every day for years since. I have 3 other immune-related conditions, one of which is rare, and I do believe all of these is related - but I'm resigned to the fact that I'll never find the underlying cause.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#206

Post by bspammer »

hilyen wrote: post #157
mwiethoff wrote: post #115

I developed an RSI a few years ago, and I had to leave my job. It was devastating to lose both my career and my passion to an injury. Since then, I've been working with a friend on a new voice coding app called Serenade [1] that aims to enable anyone to program by voice. With Serenade, you can speak natural English voice commands like "delete second function" and "add class person". Not only can this be faster than t…

Definitely interested. I’ll check it out. Same boat, software engineer, my index and middle finger main knuckles on both hands inflame from the slightest use even after years of therapy, doctors visits, etc. Also tendinitis in both elbows/arms. Note to those who are pushing off fixing your ergonomics, don’t. If you feel pain, numbing, tingling; do not ignore it. Listen to your body, don’t be like me.

I'm 23 and have been using computers very heavily for the last 10 or so years - probably an average of 6 hours a day. During a particularly intensive day of typing last week I started getting pain in my right hand. I had to resort to hunt-and-peck index finger typing to get the feature I was working on finished.

I'm horrified, it feels like I'm way too early in my career for something like this to happen, but I guess that's what happens when you do something so repetitive for tens of thousands of hours.

What in particular have you found success with that helps? I'm kinda in denial right now, it's already gotten better over Saturday but I know I shouldn't be ignoring it.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#207

Post by Stratoscope »

cactus2093 wrote: post #150
Stratoscope wrote: post #105

This won't help anyone who has lost the use of their hands, but I have some advice for touch typists who use a standard keyboard like a laptop or typical desktop keyboard: don't bend your wrists. Of course most people know about the ergonomic advice to have your keyboard at the right height so your wrists don't have to bend up or down. But I often see people typing with a horizontal bend in their wrists so that their…

I've found that most office desk & chair combinations I've had don't have enough flexibility for me to get in a completely ideal position for my wrists. In particular even with the chair maxed out, it's still an inch or two shorter of what I would need for my forearms and wrists to be parallel to the ground and at the keyboard height, so my wrists are always bent a little bit up. I've had occasional wrist and hand pa…

I hear you. I'm fortunate enough to have sit-stand desks at home and at work, and I notice if the height is even a fraction of an inch off. I also have them in standing position nearly all the time. I get sleepy if I sit too long.

There must be a way for you to solve this. For example, could you convert your desk to a standing desk by putting a sturdy box on top of it? I did this for a while using a wine box that happened to add just the right amount of height.

I was only using my ThinkPad at the time, no external monitors, so I didn't need to raise the whole desk. You could even accommodate a desktop keyboard and mouse using a bigger box.

If this works, your team will be impressed by your scrappy inventiveness! :-)

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#208

Post by RexM »

mwiethoff wrote: post #115

I developed an RSI a few years ago, and I had to leave my job. It was devastating to lose both my career and my passion to an injury. Since then, I've been working with a friend on a new voice coding app called Serenade [1] that aims to enable anyone to program by voice. With Serenade, you can speak natural English voice commands like "delete second function" and "add class person". Not only can this be faster than t…

Is this open source? I’d love to play with it and see what it would take to support C# in Visual Studio.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#209

Post by GordonS »

casion wrote: post #202
GordonS wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but at least in the UK and on the NHS, fibromyalgia is very much a diagnosis of "go away". I had to battle with my neurologist to get a skin biopsy, despite very clear symptoms of neuropathy, and a very clear trigger. He eventually ordered it, very reluctantly. It came back normal, which for him for conclusive proof that I had fibromyalgia. When I asked him about fibromyalgia, it was immediately clear that…

I had an identical experience to you, however Fibro is diagnosis of exclusion. When the doctor doesn't know what else to do, and you match the symptoms... Boom, Fibro. I think that hanlon's razor applies: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." In my case, after seeing dozens of specialists, the doctors simply had no clue what to do. Thus what was left was fibro (which few underst…

> however Fibro is diagnosis of exclusion

In part, yes, but there are actually well-defined criteria for fibromyalgia[0]

> I think that hanlon's razor applies: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

sigh, I agree. In my (unfortunately vast) experience with NHS doctors, it seems the majority have never had any training or even read a paper since they became doctors, and that they are trained to diagnose the obvious and write everyone else as a nutjob.

For example NHS endocrinologists mainly know about diabetes (even if somewhat outdated) and thyroid cancer - anything else, forget about it, you need to go private and see a specialist that doesn't have tunnel vision.

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20461783

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#210

Post by SuperPaintMan »

Stratoscope wrote: post #204
germ wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better solution is to ditch the single-block-style keyboard and get a proper ergonomic one that's split into two parts. That allows you to keep your wrists at a natural angle but you also need to change the layout to use columnar staggering so the fingers are only moving vertically. There's many things wrong with traditional keyboards and many solutions that I could write for years about. This one's mine and is focus…

That's a really interesting keyboard! I think I've seen one or two like it at the office - I will have to take a closer look. It wouldn't work for me, because as I mentioned in another comment I am a TrackPoint fanatic. I've used ThinkPads for 20 years and even have a USB ThinkPad keyboard on my desktop at work. But thank you for mentioning this option - everyone has different needs and I'm sure this will be very hel…

For the record, if you're a DIY-er you can hack a TrackPoint on there :)

https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/docs/feature...

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